E328 |  DJ Olojo on Investing with Intention – PTNC Know Your Speakers Series

Foreign.

Welcome to this episode of the Paper Trail podcast.

Today I was able to interview DJ Alojo with ASO holdings as well as author of the Foreclosure Fix.

DJ is a real estate investor who also primarily invests in second position mortgage notes and he will be speaking at the paper trail conference September 18th to 20th in Chandler, Arizona, spring, specifically on seconds, which is going to be an interesting topic because 10 years ago when I got started in notes and we talk about this on this episode, as you get to know dj, seconds were around, but a lot of people were tailored towards first because there were some lower price firsts that you could buy.

In today's economic environment, first position loans have gotten a lot more expensive and for people who got limited amount of finances to get involved in a space, seconds are a great avenue.

So DJ talks about that, talks about his path to growing his business and also the fact that he's business partner is his wife, which is also unique.

And you know, just overall great episode of Getting to Know DJ before you get to meet him at the conference this September.

So hope you enjoy this episode.

Welcome to this episode.

Dj, how are you today?

I'm doing good.

Chris, man, how you doing?

I'm good.

You're all dapper with, you know, the bow tie and a nice shirt.

I actually in.

So I recorded multiple episodes today, but I wore a shirt my wife recently got me and she was happy because I'm typically, you know, typical dude creature of habit, you know, wear like the same clothes every day and you're working from home or whatnot, especially not on video.

And you know, basically she's finally like, oh, you finally cut the tag off that one.

So, you know, get a little bonus points today.

Hey, man.

Hey.

You look a lot nicer than you usually look.

I know.

Well, that's, that's not hard.

Look nicer than I usually look.

So, you know, even like shave last night and stuff.

And my hair is not all over the place, but you know, I can, I can never look as good as you, nor could I even grow facial hair like you have.

But for those listening, DJ with the goatee.

But you know, it's all good, man.

Hey, some of us need to overcompensate with the way we look because, you know, we don't, we don't have as much brain power as you.

So, you know, I'm just trying to, I'm just, just trying to get invited into the room, that's all.

Yeah, brain power.

Talk to my wife about brain power.

See what her opinion is compared to others.

Well, you know, enough about that.

We are today talking to dj.

We're talking about the get, you know, your speakers for the Paper Trail conference that's coming up.

I'm excited to have DJ speak, which I've known DJ now for many years and, you know, one of the few note investors who I've actually met in person several times as well.

And you might laugh at that.

But I'll tell you, it's kind of rare for people to actually meet me in person because I don't travel to tons of conferences and I'm always out and about.

But so as we get started, dj, you know, let's start with, you know, tell us a little more about your story.

You know, how did you get involved in investing in the first place?

Yeah, so right after kind of like the foreclosure crash, I started investing in residential real estate locally here in Atlanta with a couple of buddies and, you know, that blossom and bloomed and I went from just doing it as a hobby to quitting my full time consulting job to doing it full time.

And I still am an active real estate investor locally, in addition to being a builder and a real estate agent.

But I started investing in mortgage notes maybe about six or seven years ago.

And I had done some, like, small notes where you lend a friend a small amount of money secured by a real estate asset.

But I hadn't done anything, you know, larger.

And I didn't know that you can actually buy institutional notes and go down that road.

And so about maybe five, six years ago, I kind of got involved in this world called note investing.

And it's been a game changer.

It's changed the way I look at real estate, both, you know, brick and mortar real estate and paper.

And it's really helped me increase my business acumen as it pertains to the financial world.

And you're also a podcast host as well?

Oh, yeah, I got, I got a podcast, you know, some other stuff like that.

But, you know, so what's interesting in your story, similar to mine, which you come from a real estate background or you've been in real estate, and all of a sudden you find out like, wait, you can invest in institutional and buy institutional paper?

Like, I was pissed.

Like, how did I not know you could do this type thing?

And, you know, a lot of people still don't know I've got.

So, you know, we were just talking before, like as a fraternity with, you know, 60 something guys in a house that, you know, you know, you know, constantly churning so when I was there for four years, you know, there's, you know, hundreds of people and 99% of them have no clue what what I do even exists.

And, you know, probably the same with a lot of your friends and family too, man.

100%.

And it's one of those things where it's a game changer because I personally don't like the volatility of a stock.

I have a very small amount of my net worth in the stock market.

And what I like about real estate is that at least I can see it, I can feel it, I can touch it.

And what I like about mortgage notes is that it's backed by something I can see, I can feel, I can touch.

And for me, that was just a game changer in the way I viewed my investment journey.

In particular my retirement investment journey.

Yep.

So you don't have majority of your portfolio in bitcoin?

No, man, I'm sorry.

You know, my wallet is empty on that side.

I was talking to someone earlier today.

I'm like, I still just don't understand it.

So I won't invest in it because I saw it was like over a hundred thousand.

I'm like, man, I know some people made a lot of money on it and I feel like I'm left out, but I still, it just, I still don't get it, you know, so.

Well, I definitely have FOMO on the bitcoin.

I'm not gonna lie.

I know some people, I do too.

You know, they say the next one's gonna be xrp.

I don't know, so.

Or I think that's what it's called.

But I got FOMO on it at the same time I have learned from notes and other real estate transactions is that, you know, invest in what you understand.

Because every time I put my money and what I don't understand, I typically lose it.

So I rather keep what's in my safe.

Safe, as they like to say.

Exactly.

Well, outside of the fact that you can invest in institutional and buy institutional notes, what's something about your journey that most people don't know, but probably should.

On the real estate side or the note side?

Either one, you know, and it could be a failure.

Like, you know, maybe about your pivot of why you pivoted to notes, or you know, something about even your non financial background and you know, notes, you know, pretty much just anything about the journey that you find unique for your situation.

Yeah, I think one of the big things that is maybe different about my journey is that I invest with My wife.

And that is unique because investing with a spouse can be just a challenging process.

You know, it could, it could lead you to divorce.

So let me just put that out there.

Right.

But no, on a more serious note, me and my wife are business partners on the note side, but then also more so on the residential real estate side.

And so we have rental property and she handles all of the management of that prop those properties.

And I handle that, the acquisition and the maintenance.

And so one of the things that's very interesting about working with your significant other is that, you know, you, you both should have a shared vis and you both are trying to get to the same destination, hopefully.

But me and my wife are complete polar opposites when it comes to our investment strategies.

My wife is very much, you know, give me a small, fixed, steady return, no risk, no nothing crazy.

And I'm very much like, hey, you know, boomer bust.

Like, you know, let's go for the gusto and stuff like that.

And so oftentimes we are at very different ends of the spectrum when we talk about investments.

And so it's been eye opening and humbling experience for, for both of us to work together and to invest together.

And I don't know if I would call us successful, but I would say we've kind of figured out the way to navigate those waters.

So if you come to the conference and you want some advice or tips on working with your significant other, definitely pull me to the side.

And I'd love to talk with you about what that looks like day to day.

Is your wife going to come?

She was supposed to be coming, but she had to cancel because unfortunately our kids have obligations and she has to be there.

So she is taking one for the team.

She was supposed to come, though.

We're going to see if granny can step in, but it's not looking like she's going to be able to.

I would love to meet your wife.

And it's funny you mentioned that because my wife and I, you know, we built our primary residence and you know, we're always involved in like, all our investments.

But when I met my wife when, you know, when we got married, one of the first things she was like is like, are you okay if we still have separate bank accounts and just a joint one for everything and like, as a.

And it's like, absolutely, like, because, you know, that's one thing.

Like, I've got mine.

So if I go spend something and, you know, buy something, it's like, okay, I can go buy a toy.

She wants to go get her hair, nails done or, you know, or go buy something.

Like, go ahead.

It's like, as long as we got the money that we say we're putting into the account for our bills and then for our kids, school and everything else, like the slush fund, it's like, you got yours, I got mine.

You know, saves a lot of arguments down the road.

So.

But now everyone has a core investment philosophy.

And it's interesting because you talked about with your wife how she's a conservative and you're kind of the, I'll use my own term, cowboy a little bit, which I know, I know you're not a cowboy in regards to, you know, basically, you know, you're still very methodical.

You know, you're just not running around, like, doing, you know, cowboyish things.

You take on more risk, I think, or look at some deals that might have some higher risk, higher reward.

But you also understand, I think, what you're doing and what the potential risks are.

But, you know, everyone has some core investment philosophy.

You know, if you could describe yours in one or two sentences, you know, what is your philosophy?

I would say my core investment philosophy Is to make 20% return, and that's it, you know, and that sounds kind of crazy and not realistic, but my goal with my investment portfolio Is to make 20% return.

And when I look at that 20% return, it's not just, you know, one number of like, hey, you made 20% return on this investment.

Although I'll take that.

My.

The way I look at it is that 20% return is on the entire portfolio every year.

And that could just be, hey, you increase in appreciation or you got depreciation because you didn't have to pay taxes on something or it appreciated in some way, shape or form, or you, you collected a coupon.

And so I try to, you know, have an amalgamation where I'm averaging a 20% increase in my overall investment portfolio every year.

Now, I'll be honest, it doesn't happen every year.

And there have been a couple years where I've done better than that, but the goal is to try to get 20% return every year.

Now, it's interesting because, like you mentioned, some people will look at it and say, that can't be done.

And, you know, the argument is, well, yeah, if you invest like now in X, Y or Z.

But this is where I had a discussion with somebody the other day about, like, forced appreciation in, like, single family and real estate.

And I'm like, you absolutely can, in a simple, easy way.

Is, is if you know how to manage contractors and you act as a GC, you just force appreciation by 25% because if it's going to cost you, you know, GC is going to charge 100,000, you're going to get it done.

If you act as the manager of that for 80,000 and you know, you just force 20,000 appreciation, yes, you spent time on there, but at the end of the day, there's strategies that, with certain expertise is what you have in different aspects of real, that can allow you to get to that number.

So 100, man.

And I think that, that's, that's the, that's the, that's the change that I think people have to have in their mindset.

Obviously, if you just want to collect the coupon, you're not going to see that type of return.

You're going to be single digit and if you're safe, it's going to be mid to low single digit.

And if you want to put in some sweat equity or if you want to spend some time, then you can really juice your returns.

And I'm at a stage and season of my life where I'm trying to run hard.

So hopefully, you know, in the next 20 years I'm sitting on a beach and you know, just responding to emails and not necessarily working as hard as I'm working now, but while, while I'm working hard, I'm trying to make that 20% churn.

Yeah, go be sending me the emails, Chris, through this because I'll probably be working for you.

You know, there you go.

So, you know, we just talked about kind of your investment philosophy about the 20%.

You know, to get that philosophy.

Most people have some principle that they live by in business that, you know, guides you, whether you're dealing with borrowers, other investors, your vendors, business partners.

You know, if you had to describe one of your core principles, you know, what, what do you think it would be?

Yeah, I think, I think there are two core principles that, that, that I go by.

Right.

One is, you know, do on others as you want them to do onto you.

Very straightforward principle there.

And then the next one is trust but verify.

So those two principles are, are my core two principles.

As I look at note investing, as I look at businesses.

You know, I try to treat everybody the way I want to be treated and you know, I trust you, but I will verify.

Oh, it's interesting because I recorded a podcast earlier with A woman who does due diligence for private lending.

And she was a former like federal investigator.

And she got into the business because she had been burned in the deal.

And when I asked her kind of one of her, you know, you know, one of her things, it was, she's like, you know, I know a lot of people do don't trust but verify.

I mean, trust but verify.

She's like, I don't trust but verify.

And I'm like, wow.

I'm like, that's pretty cold, you know, and stuff.

And she's like, well, I've been burned.

So, you know, I'm just more of a, you know, I'm not going to trust you, but I'll verify it and to earn your trust.

So I'm like, interesting, you know, so cool.

Okay, so you were or you are going to be speaking at the Paper Trail conference.

You know, we put this conference on and we were joking offline like I've got nothing better to do.

So Chris, just go start a conference.

And you know, one of the things that I focused on with this conference was to bring together different groups of people within the note space.

From private lending to seller finance, to performing to non performing notes.

Because I haven't seen a conference where all of them get together.

Because I know people like to learn about other aspects and also hear other stories from people because that's where the relationships get built, you know, for you, you know, speaking and coming to a conference, you know, why, you know, what's the importance for you to be a part of the event, man.

So I think that anytime you can get in the room with like minded individuals, you are able to increase not only your IQ but also your net worth.

Right?

And so anytime I have gotten in rooms with people who are trying to do what I'm doing or people who are way ahead of me in my journey, it always leads to more dollars in my bank account.

And so for me, the reason I'm excited to go is because I think it's going to help me not just make 20, it's going to help me make maybe 25 or 30%, you know, in this next coming year.

In addition to that, again, it's that rule of if you're around other people who are going in the direction you're going to go, you know, you may not get there as fast, but they're going to pull you in that direction.

And so just being in these conferences and being in these rooms and having these conversations, sometimes the light bulb goes off you and it really can Be a game changer and your, you know, not only financial journey, but also in your own personal journey.

And the last thing is that, you know, a lot of my friends are coming.

You know, I consider Chris to be a friend.

And we don't get to hang out and chop it up all the time.

But, you know, you gotta believe at these conferences we're gonna, you know, have a good time, share some stories, share some war stories and some battle scars and just connect with other people.

And so that's the other part I'm looking forward to.

And it's funny you mentioned that about like, you know, growing your net worth.

And I tell people a story and I've said it a thousand times now.

Four years ago, I was, you know, you know, working still on a W2.

Then I did a conference that my speaking engagement was how to lose money in note investing.

And somebody saw that and was like, wow, I want to get to know that person.

And that person essentially stalked me for several months until Shantae.

You know, Shantae, Shanti calls me one day, is like, will you freaking call this woman?

She says she sent you like three LinkedIn messages, a LinkedIn voice message.

And she, you know, wants to connect with you.

And she's like really sharp and stuff.

And, you know, fast forward to today.

That person, you know, is my number one employee.

They're my business partner.

And, you know, I was managing a few million in funds to today, you know, I've got eight employees and we've got over $40 million raised in our fund because of, you know, this meeting, you know, a lot of it meeting with this person, Lauren, because I'm not a salesperson.

I'm not investor relations or money.

I'm a.

I know how to find and buy deal type person.

And I needed that other person, you know, my called Batman, Robin or whatever you want to call it, you know, duo to feed off of something that is different from you.

And, you know, I wouldn't be where I was today without, you know, speaking at that conference or, you know, more networking and finding people to figure out how to grow a business.

So without spoiling your session, what's one thing you hope attendees can learn or think differently about Note investing after hearing you speak, Chris.

And you got to give the audience a salacious kind of title.

So that way they just sign up for your session.

So, you know, my session is going to focus on how to turn a hundred thousand dollars into a million dollars in 10 years.

What you think about that?

I like that.

I was waiting for if you were to said six months or a year, I would have basically called you out and said that's now I gotta edit.

Which I have seen people, you know, see that and so forth.

But you know, interesting.

I mean you're going to talk, you know, about seconds and you know, it's a space that it's kind of, I don't know why it's so controversial, but it feels like there's a lot of controversy in seconds in the space.

And it's, you know, people either like love it or hate it.

And you know, to me it's, you know, again, it's another avenue to grow a business.

So I'm just curious some feedback on that.

Yeah, man.

So I am in the second space.

You know, I love seconds and the way I look at seconds is just, you know, how do you turn small dollars into big returns?

And you know, I was joking about the title but if you do the math, if you can grow your $100,000 at 23% over 10 years, it'll be a million bucks.

And so at the end of the day the reality is that you can do that.

And I am currently doing that with my seconds portfolio.

And so ultimately I'm excited to tell the audience one more about seconds to how they differ than those first mortgages and things like that.

And then the opportunity that's out there with seconds and the beauty of it for me is like, I don't have a class, I don't have a toolkit that I'm trying to sell you.

I don't have anything.

I'm just going to tell you my own experience and let you kind of figure out what works best for your own personal investment strategy and excited to kind of be a part of this all star group you're putting together.

And the only thing I got for you is a book and if you come to the session you may get a free copy of it.

So I, I don't, I don't got more cars than that, Chris.

So what's interesting about seconds too is over the last 24 months, you know, there hasn't been a huge increase in invent.

There hasn't been a lot of inventory in the second space.

And from that I know people were involved, started to, you know, shift away to other ventures and same thing with non performing first as well.

But when you look at and I'm type of person who I think I'm pretty good at like seeing the future, predicting or just part of me is just like common sense to some of this stuff but as note investors, we get to see a lot of, I'll say, like the prequel to the movies, because we see things in regards to people's loans that isn't being reported or like what's hit.

Real estate's a slow moving space.

So what happens today or what we see might not actually impact things for six months or a year, but the number of people who got lines of credit at very low rates or adjustable rates during COVID is mind blowing and off the charts.

And as the interest rates have risen, everything's gotten a lot more expensive.

Taxes and insurance and people go back to racking up a lot of those credit cards that they paid off with these lines of credit.

I think, you know, and it's not going to be tomorrow, but within next 24 months you're going to start to see a consistent supply of seconds in the space.

Would you agree with that?

I do agree 100% and I like the second space because I think it positions you very well to think creatively about opportunities.

So if nothing else, what benefits investing in seconds has done for me is that it's given me the mindset of how do I try to make a deal work that on face value may not look like a good deal.

And so when I think about your specific scenario, you have it with homeowners, but then you also have with investors because you know, you do a lot of stuff with, you know, DSER stuff and investment loans.

And there are a lot of investors out there who are in predicaments now where they may not have properties that have enough to kind of service that that first mortgage or, you know, the loan to value may be looking a little bit sketchy as, as things change.

And so it creates another opportunity, as I think about some of the other speakers you have, not to just go buy seconds that are non performing, but maybe also to originate seconds as you think about some of the other panels and speakers that are going to be talking about.

And so the seconds mindset is not just about, oh, how do I buy an npl, a non performing loan and then make it reperform, but it's also, you know, are seconds a better position for me to be in?

Can I charge a higher interest rate because I'm in second position behind the first on an investment property and all these other things.

Can I take a shorter loan term whereas the first mortgage may have a 30 year AM I'm only doing a 5 year note with the balloon.

So does that protect me in the long run?

Because my investment time horizon on that is shorter.

You know, all these different thoughts that you can have when you're dealing with seconds that maybe when you're dealing with the traditional first, you wouldn't have to think about.

No.

And it's interesting because like you said, there's seconds.

And then at the conference we've got like private lending and some of these other things.

But I've known people who've done.

And here's an interesting situation.

It's like, okay, where does this fit the box?

Somebody's owned an investment property for a long time.

They got a rate at 3% on it, that they've owned it for eight years.

It's a $300,000 property.

I'm sorry, they have a $300,000 first.

The property is worth 800,000.

And you know, there's, you know, they need to put a hundred thousand in there because they want to jack up the rent.

And you know, would you give them a second?

That might be an investor loan or private lending, but there's situations where, hey, look, you might be able to get a 15%, you know, write that for a 24 month loan at 15% interest only, and you're still at 50% loan to value.

Now that in some instances might be safer than a first that somebody did seller financing on, which we have a lot of topics on that, or a First that's at 70% LTV.

There's so many different options and strategies and things to say.

You just can't pick one and say, like, I don't do a lot of seconds, but I can't say, oh, seconds are bad.

There's situations where a second in some seconds are far better than first, you know, so it's really creating that situation that I know you're excellent at doing.

So you hit the nail on the head.

And that's the, that's the big thing around the second mortgage is it's, it's another product, another arrow in your quiver, another tool in your tool belt for you to be able to use and grow your wealth.

Now, you've worked with, you know, all kinds of investors, you know, besides just using the typical answer everyone gives and say, just be like, chris, now what makes a great investor, in your opinion?

I'm sorry.

I knew, I knew I was gonna throw you for this one.

So for people who don't, again, DJ and I go back, you know, many years and we always banter back and forth with each other.

So it's, I had to throw that one out at you.

Well, you need, you need a little Bit of.

You take a little bit of wit from Chris, you know, a little bit of style from DJ and you know, the brains of multiple attorneys, and you mix it all together.

I think the big thing that an investor has to have is.

Is I'm trying to figure out a word that won't get bleeped out.

So is some gumption and some ability to take a risk, because I know a lot of people.

And Chris, you probably know a lot of people who you have seen at conferences, the few you go to, or you have, you know, seen on different conference calls or masterminds you may be in, who, you know, have been studying and thinking about investing in a note for, like the last, you know, 10 years.

And you ask them, how many notes have they bought?

And they'll say, oh, I got one.

And it's not because of lack of resources.

Right.

So I'm not, you know, saying, hey, if you don't have the money and you're sitting on the sidelines, educating yourself is a bad idea.

But a lot of these people have the resources.

They just are scared to make a commitment.

They're scared to actually pull the trigger.

And I think you have to be smart enough and wise enough and bold enough to be able to say, I'm going to allocate a certain amount of money to this type of investment and be able to be okay if you lose that money.

And so I think that that's the big thing a good note investor has to have is that ability to take the risk and live with the outcome.

Yep.

And it's interesting because I know of an investor who started right around the same time I did.

And this person attends, I would say, at least a conference every other month.

And I believe they've about one note in that time.

And I'm.

You know, one time they called me up and I got mad at them because I'm like, will you stop going to conferences and go buy a damn asset?

Like, stop, stop.

Just go buy something.

And the issue is, you know, there.

And this is one of the things that I think people see.

And, you know, it's a conference.

You'll hear a lot of conversations about this too.

People are looking for the perfect asset.

And what I mean by that is, I want the cleanest performing loan that's been paying for five years, but I also want to have like 20% EL to loan to value.

And I want to get it at a 13 yield.

And it's like, well, it doesn't work that way.

You could buy it maybe at 9 or 10 and still get above average, you know, returns from the market at like 8.

But you're not going to get like some, you know, somebody's not going to sell it to you at 13 and 14.

And in the same token, they're like, oh, I got this one under agreement.

And like, I got it for a good discount, but then I do all the work and it's like, well, it's missing this or that and I'd have to spend work or time to go get that document.

And, you know, they missed a payment last year and, you know, whatnot and so forth.

I'm like, yeah, but that's why you're probably buying it at that.

You know, it's like anything, you know, there's a risk involved and the more hair on the asset, the more discount there will be.

Meaning hair, meaning more issues potentially with it.

And sometimes people are just always waiting for that perfect situation.

And I always use a term, you know, there's the window shoppers who are people who just go to conference and look at everyone who's actually doing stuff and basically like, hey, I'm on the other side.

Just, you know, good to see you.

And then there's the actual doers.

So, no, that's.

I agree.

Because the only way you get better is by doing.

I use the golf analogy.

You can read every single book in the world on how to hit a golf ball, but I can guarantee you that the most advancement you'll ever make on a golf course is by either being at the driving range or at the tee box.

So 100 and that's enough.

That's another reason I love seconds, right?

I have bought.

I'm not in the hundreds yet, but I bought many.

I think I'm past 70 notes or whatever.

Most have been seconds.

And the reason I've been able to do that is not because I have a lot of money, right?

So, you know, I don't throw that number out there saying like, oh, man, you know, if you do the math, it's not as much money as Chris probably.

So you know what I mean?

But the reason I can is because you can buy small balance notes that are second mortgages.

And so I bought notes for as low as a thousand bucks, all the way up to, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars.

But at the end of the day, that ability to have the reps has allowed me to be able to feel more comfortable when I go spend, you know, 25 or 30 or 50 or $60,000 on a note to feel more comfortable to say okay, I'm going to get my money back.

And I think that that's the big thing that I love about seconds, is that you can have more reps and have more opportunities to learn and make mistakes.

And I'll be honest with you, I've made a ton of them, and I continue to make them.

I just bought a note the other day, and then the person who I bought it from sent me a letter that says, hey, just so you know, we just got this in the mail.

And it was basically the tax office letting them know that the taxes were sold and that, you know, if I don't.

If I don't write a big check, we're not getting it back.

You know what I mean?

So we still make the mistakes.

But it's one of those things where, you know, it's.

You're always learning, but without these reps, you want to be in that position where you can.

Yeah.

And somebody asked me the other day, which was a great question, you know, if you started out today, what would you do differently?

And I told them I would struggle a lot more today than I did seven years ago or 10 years ago or eight or.

I don't even know now.

First for 5, 10, 15, 20,000, which today you can't.

So to get started.

And I was doing that, which again, I was.

It was the.

The bulk factor of.

Buy some loans, work them out, and just learn through the experience of buying, you know, loan after loan after loan.

And they're affordable, so you could recycle them.

Today, you can't do that with first, but you can still do that with seconds, which is unique.

So it's a different opportunity that previously people who were considering One thing now 10 years ago, might want if, you know, with lesser money, get started in a different strategy.

But so what's one mistake that you see newer investors make that you try to help them avoid?

Yeah, I think one of the big mistakes I see newer investors make is trying to follow too many different people in the industry.

I think that, you know, I've seen people who are part of, like, three different masterminds and, you know, take it with a grain of salt.

I'm a part of a couple masterminds myself.

So, like, I'm not.

I'm not knocking masterminds.

I think they're great.

But again, it goes back to that.

You got to find somebody who you want to learn from, and then Learn from them and buy assets.

The biggest thing you can do is buy assets.

So if you can go buy assets, it changes your, your trajectory in the business.

Because if I spend two or three years learning, yeah, it's important to sharpen your, your, your sword, you know, or sharpen your ax before you cut down the tree.

I agree.

100 but this is notes.

You don't have to sharpen your axe for four or five years.

Right.

You know, you can sharpen your ax for, you know, six months and continue to sharpen it, you know, as you're buying additional notes.

And so learning from too many people and being a part of too many masterminds versus going and go buy a note or create a note or, you know, focus in and do something, that's the biggest pitfall I see people fall into.

The other thing I see is people not only in three different groups, but they're on three different things.

You know, one's in a group doing this, one's a group doing that.

And they have too much where it's like, okay, focus on one thing.

Because when you focus on multiple things, you end up doing nothing.

And I had a conversation with somebody earlier today similar, like they're trying to find more sellers, more sellers, more sellers.

And I told them, like, look, I already gave you a name of five sellers and you told me how much money you have.

Focus on them.

Like, you don't need 20 sellers if you got a hundred thousand dollars, invest, find, focus on that one.

If you.

Trust me, if you buy a deal or several deals with a seller and you know, go through a due diligence close and do it in an efficient manner over time, that person's going to remember you because it's small space.

And then, you know, then you roll that one up to another one.

You come up say, hey, great, I got that deal, it's done.

You got something else for me.

All of a sudden you get like 2, 3, 4 deals from one person.

You know, it snowballs.

I today to this date, again, I have lost track how many notes I bought.

But the majority of the loans we buy, and it shifted over the years, used to be one seller we bought a lot from, they're no longer around and stuff.

But you know, and it shifts consistently.

But in any given point in time, it's typically three people.

You know, I could name 25 sellers right off the top of my tongue who sell loans.

But primarily I typically buy from like three.

Now, it doesn't mean I don't buy from the others.

It's one offs in here.

But it's primarily from the same people who I've built relationships over the last decade with.

Yeah, no, and when I think about my portfolio, you know, majority comes from one seller and then, you know, I got about four others that I bought from.

You know what I mean?

And so it's one of those situations where again, if you get in, you get in a good space.

And another thing about that, you know, as you talk about sellers, is there's a rapport that's built.

Right?

So if for some reason a deal doesn't work out, you know, in your favor, they'll, they'll remember you on the other one.

Like, you know, they, they won't, they won't fade you or, or, or they'll help you out on another one.

And that's the, again, it's the relationship piece.

Like, I know that if I buy a note from Chris and it goes sideways for, you know, something that's out of his control, well, I know in the future he'll look out for me.

Right.

And, and that's just the relationships you build.

And that's just the way it works.

Works in any business, but specifically in this small space.

Yep.

100 agree.

Okay, as we wrap up this episode, we're gonna do a little bit of lightning, round and so forth, and you know, ask you a few questions as we wrap up.

What's one word you would use to describe the current market?

Buyer beware.

Oh, I like that.

It's actually two words, but I'll let you get away with it.

Thank you very much.

I appreciate it.

You know, it's, you know, and I mentioned this in elsewhere too.

I've been getting trolled a little bit on social media because I kind of made that comment where somebody made a comment, oh, properties are still selling well over asking price in certain markets.

And I'm like, okay, but 49 out of 50 markets are declining.

In certain markets, you're seeing huge drops and persons like calling me out and stuff and like, show it to me.

And I actually took a.

Because there's all public notice, two properties are nearing foreclosure and a brand new neighborhood of 14 homes.

The house, two of them are in foreclosure and they're in foreclosure for call around a million to a million one where all the other homes are selling for 1.5.

Okay.

And I was using an example is these went to foreclosure.

Actually they just finished one of them finished foreclosure.

The other one's like, Foreclosure in, like, two weeks.

And I said, this one just sold it.

Foreclosure auction for like 1 million 50.

The other one's coming up.

All the other houses are selling for 1.4, 1.5, but only, like, four of the 14, like, they're still being built have sold.

And I use the example of what is going to happen when somebody goes to buy a house for 1.4 million and the last two sales in that neighborhood are REOs for a million dollars.

Yep.

Like, the appraisals are going to come in low.

It's going to drop the prices, and everything's going to.

You go to southwest Florida, Cape Coral, Port Charlotte, that area.

People are building homes.

Builders are walking away from homes because they thought they'd be worth a half a million dollars.

When they're done constructing them, they're in the three worth, you know, 300 grand, 350 now, 375.

I mean, those are.

It's 20% decline.

That's a big number.

So cool.

Same thing may happen in that subdivision you're talking about, because they're not done building the houses.

They're gonna be like, it's not worth it.

Let's take our loss now.

Yep.

So what's one thing you've changed your mind about in the last year?

Avocado toast.

Oh, are you a fan?

I am now.

Okay.

Your bread has to be the right texture, but I had it before.

And slightly brown.

Right.

Lightly brown.

Okay.

Lightly brown.

Or maybe even a little bit more toasted.

But I had it a couple times and the bread was soggy.

It was like, ah, I'm not a fan, but I've had it recently.

And I was like, okay.

With the right.

With the right toast on the bread, you know, a nice, not good lunch or breakfast.

It's interesting because my wife and daughter.

Big avocado toast.

Like, if we go out for breakfast and stuff, and I've never been, but I try, like, you know, those.

My daughter, who's, you know, you know, small and can never like, you know, breakfast places give you, like, the big thing.

And she's like, yeah, eating all that.

So one time, like, let me try some of it.

And I was tasting.

I'm like, I'm not usually a big avocado person.

Like, man, it's actually pretty good.

So.

Yeah.

Cool.

And last question again, besides me, because I just don't jump in a conclusion now.

Who's a person you'd like to thank for your success?

I'll probably say my wife.

She'll never listen to this podcast.

So, you know, I was just gonna.

Say you're probably gonna name your wife just to be in the good graces business with her.

So that's pretty impressive.

She'll never listen.

But, you know, I think like anything else, the beauty of marriage in general is that, you know, it keeps you humble.

And especially when you're somebody like me who, who thinks you have it all figured out and you're willing to, you know, go in guns a blazing.

She is definitely the person who's like, no, you're wrong.

And she'll remind you of how many times you've been wrong and she keeps a very good record of it.

And so I think that that's helpful for somebody who, who has a little bit of an ego.

And it's also helpful to kind of have her perspective because, you know, opposites do attract in some way, shape or form.

But she's helped me make a lot more wise decisions where I would go in guns a blazing.

And so she's definitely a big, a big contributor to my success.

Yeah.

And it's interesting for anybody who has, you know, a spouse or a partner out there and you're kind of, you know, an entrepreneur in the business, don't underestimate how powerful that partner can be.

And a lot of times you're like, I don't want to put that upon them and stuff.

And I can't tell you how many times I've just like ran situations by my wife, who is a thousand times smarter than me anyways.

But, but just, you know, having that conversation with her or just sometimes if you have even just to calm you down a little bit or you know, just, you know, sometimes because I'm type person sometimes who I actually have a 10 second delay on my send because sometimes I get a little hot or fired up a little bit, but you know, just hearing another opinion.

But also if it's not your business partner, just somebody who's not as involved because sometimes a situation you get so involved in it, you can't see the forest from the trees.

And you know, having that, you know, with you, the tag team with you and your wife, you know, that's actually an awesome partnership.

And you know, congratulations for, you know, keeping that and being successful in it.

No, thank you.

And again, a lot of success just comes from the fact that she's a lot smarter than me, but lets me take a lot of credit.

So, you know, I mean, it'll be, it'll be, it'll be her idea.

But I Like, yeah, you know when I told you that, she's like, yeah, I told you that five years ago.

But yeah, it's your idea.

You know what I mean?

So.

But no, like you, man, I think we both have, you know what, out kicked our coverage as it comes to our wives.

So, you know, we're salesmen.

That's what we do.

And I'm grateful for it.

Well, dj, thanks for coming on today.

Always a pleasure.

You know, getting a talk shop with you.

If people want to learn more about you, reach out to you, what's the best way and tell, you know, what book, what's the name of the book and podcast that they can listen to?

You know, gotta sell yourself a little bit now.

Yeah.

So I am DJ Alojo on all socials.

My email is dj@aso holdings.com.

my book is called the Foreclosure Fix.

12 Proven Steps to beat the bank escape foreclosure and turn your property into a profitable asset.

And if you want to reach out to me, you want to see me, you want to talk to me, you got to come to the Paper Trail conference.

Because if you're there, we'll have conversations over coffee, over lunch, over libations, and we'll just have a really good time.

And I would love to see you in the place.

I plan to be there, bow tie and all.

So make sure you get your ticket.

I know that there is some, some, some promo codes if you are one of the first folks to kind of sign up, and not first, but sign up before a certain date.

So I'll let Chris tell you about how to do all that, but definitely I would love to see you there and look forward to meeting you in person.

Yep.

So you can just go to papertrail conference.com It's September 18th to 20th in Chandler, Arizona.

It is multiple days of investing discussions, workshop sessions, networking, and you know, also last day.

I know a lot of people like to try and bail early.

So we are going to spend a day talking AI and I've already got my person creating some crazy stuff that try and blow some people's minds with just, you know, where the business could also be headed.

So thanks for listening to this episode and as always, continue to follow that paper trail.

Thank you all.