Why You Should Not Invest In Notes Today With Jamie Bateman

November 6, 2020




Want to get into the note investing business but don’t know the first thing about it? Chris Seveney has got your back on this as he goes back into the basics of and frequently asked questions in note investing in this episode. What are notes? What is the difference between a note and a mortgage? How to they work together? What are deeds? Everything you need to know to get started is here. Join in!

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Why You Should Not Invest In Notes Today With Jamie Bateman

Jamie, how are you?

I am doing well? How are you doing, Chris?

I am good. I’m a little amped up. It’s been a crazy week and so forth, but things are going well. We’ve got a great episode because we’re going to tag upon what we talked about in the last episode which is Top Ten Reasons Why to Invest in Notes. Now, we’re going to talk about Top Ten Reasons Why Not to Invest in Notes. Hopefully, you will enjoy this episode. Before we get to that, let’s talk about some trials and tribulations.

As far as trials and tribulations, for me, some weeks is like, “This note business is great. It’s profitable,” but not so much this week. It feels like I’m getting hit from all different angles. I’m certainly not passing the buck on that, but legal fees and all kinds of things were getting thrown at me. One of which was the QWR or Qualified Written Response requests. It is not the most expensive issue I’ve dealt with, but it surprised me for sure. We bought a performing note in Tampa, Florida. Out of the blue, my servicer contacts me and forwards me this QWR/cease and desist letter that came from the borrower.

I don’t know if the borrower’s confused about whether or not I own this note or what the behind the scenes issue is, but at the end of the day, I have to pay FCI $350 to respond to this thing, at least. It may end up being more, but there’s nothing I can do about it. FCI has to acknowledge within five days that we received this request, and within 30 days to formally respond to this request to let the borrower know that we indeed purchase this note and everything’s on the up and up. It surprised me that there was a cease and desist letter involved since this is a performing note I’ve never had. We’re not coming after the borrower or anything. This is how we’re starting off our relationship with this borrower.

I do think that it’s not all the borrowers. There are these companies out there that market to borrowers and make money off of this and we’ll see where it goes. I did speak with Erin Quinn about it. She essentially said to let FCI handle it. She’ll check it, but it would be even more expensive for her to do it. It surprised me because it’s a performing note. We haven’t even gotten a payment on this thing yet and there’s nothing I can do about it. The borrower, because of their action, I have to come out of pocket several hundred dollars. That’s one of the things we’ve been dealing with and expenses adding up. I am trying to keep the big picture and the long-term view in mind.

Expenses during the COVID crisis will increase significantly because things are taking longer. One thing I’ll mention about QWR is to make sure they respond. After the fourth day, say, “Have you drafted? Are you ready to respond?” If they don’t respond, it can get expensive. I’m saying it from a friend. I may have been involved in a situation that is a whole other rant where a servicer didn’t provide a Qualified Written Response and ended up costing me a lot more than $350. Thankfully, I don’t use that servicer anymore.

From my trials and tribulations, it touches upon that topic. You see people’s true colors when there’s conflict and this is a conflict-oriented business. I’ve been dealing with a lot of different things coming at me in the sense of I’m helping two people who are in JV deals that had gone bad. How was the person who was sponsoring those bringing them to a successful conclusion? Were they being honest? Do they have integrity? Seeing that, it ticks you off to see how some people hide or do things. For me, I viewed this as unethical. I’m going through something where I had a company make a mistake. Shame on me, I didn’t read the agreement good enough, but I’ve also spent a lot of money with them over time. There are agreements in place and relationships.

If it’s something that you want to continue a relationship with, maybe you do things a little differently. If you have a JV deal and you’ll lose money. The contract says, “Sorry, you lost money.” I know many people who will make that person whole. I’ve done it several times in the past from that perspective of making sure people are whole because of more relationships. In dealing a lot with that, I’ll probably go on a rant after I have legal finally reviewed what my rant is. From that perspective, there are a lot of frustrations in this business like what you’re facing.

When I woke up on Monday, I was like, “Shit, I don’t want to do this.” The only thing I can think about is Bill McCafferty when I don’t have what I want, especially on Monday, to get going. If you’ve ever listened to Bill, he comes at you laser-focused. He’s motivating. He said, “You got to set up on Sunday night and on Monday, you go out there and crush it.” That’s the only thing I can think of when I’m feeling down on Monday. I’ve got Bill McCafferty on my shoulder, screaming at me like my football coach in high school and stuff.

I enjoyed that episode you guys did a while back with him.

He was on a DME talking and stuff. That was my trial and tribulations. This business isn’t easy. That’s what we’re going to talk about is you have to have a solid lining stomach. With that, I’ll let you start and let you roll through your top five. I’ll probably go through mine, but I know I’m going to chime in as always because I can’t shut up as you go through some of these things.

Everything in life has pros and cons for the most part, and note investing is no different than that. There certainly are a lot of positives otherwise, we wouldn’t be in this business. There are certainly downsides to note investing as well. In no particular order, the first is there’s no preferential tax treatment. There’s no real tax advantage to investing in notes as compared to hard real estate like with a buy and hold rental property. There is depreciation and certain tax benefits that are written into the code to encourage investors to participate in and invest in that asset class. I’m not saying there are no tax advantages ever to running a note business, but as far as buying a note and holding that note and collecting interest, you’re going to be taxed at your ordinary income. There’s no built-in tax treatment or benefit.

That’s why you see a lot of people use their self-directed IRAs for note investing, using it for rentals and so forth. For me, if I had two buckets of money, I had my own cash and I had retirement money, all the retirement money would go in notes. All the cash would go mostly in real estate because real estate with your own cash has better tax treatment than notes does. That’s something to consider but as always, we’re not CPAs or accountants so talk to them.

I try to do the same thing as well. My self-directed Roth, I’ve got notes in it and I have no intention of buying rentals in that. The second thing that’s a downside to investing in notes is there are tons of moving parts. You may touch on this a little bit later, Chris, but there are so much paperwork and a lot of things going on. If you’re not up for that challenge, running a note business isn’t for you. There’s a whole lot of things that can be expensive if you miss one of those things. None of them individually are rocket science, but you’ve got to keep track of a lot of vendors. Dealing with the books are important. There are all kinds of details and paperwork, and if you’re not a detail-oriented person or you can’t keep track of moving parts, this might not be for you.

You got to be organized. The difference between conventional real estate and notes, especially on distress notes versus distress house, there’s a statute of limitations on things on what you can do. If you miss a deadline, it can be fatal. Whereas, if you bought a house to fix it up, as long as you’re paying the taxes, there are no deadlines. You can take five years to fix up a house or whatever. You can do it at your own pace. With notes, you got to pay attention because there’s a lot of moving parts that binds that. If you miss something, you can lose everything.

This note business boils down to three things. One of those three things is asset management and there are people that say, “It’s passive.” It is not so much. You got to be on top of everything even when you’re owning the note, not just during your due diligence. The third item is the value of the asset decreases over time. I’m talking about a performing note and there are other external factors to consider like market conditions and how much buyers are willing to pay for a note. Certainly, a note can increase in value but in general, compared to a buy and hold rental property, it’s going to go down in value. If you buy a performing note and hold it for twenty years, that principal balance is going down. Whereas a rental property in most markets over the long-term is going to appreciate, even though you get that depreciation tax benefit, the actual asset itself is going to go up in value. That’s another downside.

I also would make the statement and people can agree or disagree that nonperforming assets also depreciate because your expenses continue. Over a course of a year from January 1 to January 1, if you hold the nonperforming asset during that year, you have servicing, taxes and other costs that you have to pay, but also the property is not being well-kept. While there might be some home appreciation in that area, typically, that is offset by the house continuing to have more damage, whether it’s a roof leak or whatever the case may be. It’s rarely that a nonperforming asset appreciates. If it does, it’s offset by all the costs that you’re spending.

If the homes are appreciating in that area, that means taxes and insurance are going to go up. As you said, the expenses keep going up. Number four is leverage. You certainly can go out and borrow money to buy a note and then borrow money against that, and use that note as collateral as hypothecation. It’s not quite as simple as going out and walking into your bank and saying, “I want to buy a rental property and I’m getting a loan on that.” That’s a downside. It’s not quite as easy to leverage your note portfolio as it is a rental portfolio, for example. I know this isn’t a straight comparison to rentals, but it’s not an inherent benefit to investing in notes.

It’s two completely different ways of getting funding. On hard real estate, either you have to have a good credit score where you can get financing from a bank or you’re getting hard money where it’s based on the deal. This business is more like that hard money. Based on that, if you’re buying a rental, it doesn’t matter if you’ve owned a rental or not. All the bank cares about is what’s your credit score and can you pay? On a hard money loan, it’s more asset-based and more based on your experience if you’re trying to renovate something. On a note, it’s very similar. In order to raise money in that sense or get money, whether it be market or have a lot of conversations with people, it’s a different way of getting money. Once I find that you can get some money coming in the door, I find it’s much easier to continue on that path, but getting started is much harder.

You’re not going to walk into a regular bank and get a loan on a note or to go buy a note. There is more of a hurdle there. Number five, this industry is the Wild Wild West. In the last few years, there’s been more regulation, more laws involved and debt collection laws to try to regulate this industry. In general, it’s the Wild Wild West. There are sharks out there or maybe not even people that intended to be sharks, but people that are incompetent and unethical. Whether that’s other note investors or vendors, you got to understand who you’re working with and build that element of trust. Trust is always important in general, but it’s really easy for someone who’s not trustworthy to operate in this space.

We can beat the dead horse on this one about due diligence on people. When I hear stories of people sending somebody six figures on closing and don’t go through escrow and they never get the notes back, I would love to hear an explanation on that. People JV with somebody on a note that’s performing. They have collected $15,000 payments over three years and don’t give a penny to that partner, and then run off with their money. Try and explain that to me. Everybody makes mistakes, but it comes back to how are you operating your business. A lot of these businesses run in two ways. They’re either bigger and thinking you’re a small business. They can squash or take advantage of you, or vice versa. They’re a small business and aren’t mature enough to know how to handle certain situations when they get themselves in trouble. They probably just follow what everyone does on Facebook and social media and do something that probably is not the right thing. For note investors, you can go lend money. Even though there is regulation, nobody’s watching over it.

To get into the industry, I was on another show and I was asked, “How hard is it to be a note investor from a scale of 1 to 10?” I said, “To get in is easy. It’s probably 1 or 2 to become a note investor. It’s not that hard, but should you?” I compared it with Wall Street investing. There are all kinds of different series. You can get your CFA Series 7 or 6, all these licenses to manage money and be a professional stockbroker or stock investor, whereas in this, anybody can get in. The barrier to entry is low, which can be positive, but it also invites the potential for fraud or real incompetence.

You can stay at a Holiday Inn one night and then wake up a note investor. You touched upon it, but one of the reasons why not to is this is a heavily regulated industry, and to do it right is expensive. To get licensing and so forth and people are like, “I don’t need that and stuff.” I joke to some people like, “I’m not going to tell you whether to get a license or not but in some states, you’re better off not getting one.” I know one investor who got whacked hard because he was dealing with a JV agreement. I got another one who got whacked because they didn’t have a license in that state.

Some states will force you to get the license. Others will find you, but there are things like Qualified Written Response. If you don’t reply, you violate Fair Debt or RESPA. My best situation when that occurred, it costs me thousands of dollars because of a simple mistake of not responding to a letter. If you’re a fix and flipper, maybe you get a nuisance lien or something like that. Typically, there are several occasions where you still have a chance to fix it. Here, if you didn’t do it, especially another attorney on the other side, they’re not going to work with you. It’s going to cost you. That was my number six.

Number seven to tag along with that is this is a conflict-oriented business. What I mean by that is you’re dealing with conflict, typically on a daily basis, especially on the nonperforming notes. The conflict is you have a borrower not paying and they want to stay in a property. There’s a conflict because you can’t have both. You can’t have somebody living in a property for free. How do you resolve that conflict? There’s no playbook on how to deal with each situation. It comes from experience. You deal with an attorney and your servicers. There are a lot of mistakes that get made which leads to conflict. It’s got to be how do you handle that?

If you’re somebody who might be a little hesitant, I don’t recommend you to be in this business. I know somebody who invested over $100,000 with somebody and they haven’t seen a penny. I was like, “You should get an attorney and do this and that.” He was like, “I don’t want to get an attorney. I don’t want to do this.” I was like, “If you’re not going to fight for your money, your money’s not going to fight for you.” Some people think that somebody is going to magically wake up one morning and be like, “I can’t believe I did these people wrong,” or whatnot and magically cut them a check. Maybe it happens, but I highly doubt it. What are your thoughts? What type of skin do you need to be in this business?

It goes back to active versus passive because anytime you’re actively dealing with people in general, whether it’s in your 9 to 5 job or workplace, there are going to be conflicts. If I’m going out and buying a stock that’s super passive, there’s probably not going to be conflict there with the Apple board. With note investing deals, you are dealing with people whether it’s borrowers, vendors and attorneys. Inevitably there is going to be conflict. You have to be okay with people not liking you or making a tough decision. An example I had is a CFD in Michigan. We purchased it in December 2019 and the borrower was paying, and then he went dark.

It turns out his wife had passed away and he’d lost his job, but he wasn’t communicating. He wasn’t willing to play ball. We were moving forward with legal and some people might see that as heartless, but you’ve got to be able to not shy away from conflict. Now, he’s back on track and we’re communicating and we’re good. If you don’t show that you’re willing to do what you say you’re going to do, whether that invokes conflict or not, then you’re going to have issues in this business. If you’re going to be an active note investor, it requires interacting with people. Anytime you interact with people, there’s going to be conflict. You can’t shy away from it. I don’t necessarily seek out conflict, but you got to be willing to do what you say you’re going to do and hold your ground.

As part of the conflict, I’m going to roll in the next one, which is number eight. This business requires significant management skills. I can argue with people that managing an asset is more important than what you pay for an asset. People can look at what they should pay for, what their expenses are, and what it’s worth. You are going to know what a seller is going to sell an asset for. It’s like a car. There’s a set pricing on vehicles. On that note, it’s a range. It’s like buying a car. You can negotiate, but this is what you typically pay. When you go to sell your car, it is based off of what you bought paid for it, or is it more based off of how you took care of it over that period of time? That’s the analogy I use because how you took care of it over that time is extremely important.

For example, we got to manage realtors, servicers and attorneys. I’ve got an REO property in Iowa that a company I’ve been trying to use get this thing listed. They’re all gung-ho at the start and they disappeared on me. It’s funny because I got them from the title company I’m having problems with. I’m having an issue with the title company and an attorney who I’ve asked them to send a demand letter out. They didn’t send it out. They then asked me for an updated payoff and reinstatements. They didn’t send it out so I’m trying to get them. How do I force them to send everything out? It’s also difficult where you’re managing from afar.

When you work for a company, you’re working internally, you go knock on someone’s door, “We got to get this done so forth.” You can’t do that in note investing, which it’s great that they can do it anywhere, but it also sucks doing it from afar. Unless you’re constantly sending a signal to them as a reminder, everyone is busy that sometimes things fall to the back of the list. It goes back to why you need to be organized to make sure you stay on top of these things because if you’re not, you go back to that potential fatal flaw that could happen.

If you’re trying to scale in the note business, your business will come down to people and systems as far as the operations of it. Whether that means you’re hiring ten full-time people, which neither of us does or you’re primarily outsourcing through contractors and vendors, it still requires management and both of those scenarios have their downsides. My wife works for me for the business for Labrador Lending. I hired someone to help out, not an actual employee but a contractor, Steven Burke. He’s been great so far. He is super organized. He’s on the ball, but it still requires me to go back and say, “What are my priorities here?” I’m just being a good manager or a good leader. Just because he’s diligent with his tasks and everything, it doesn’t mean he knows what I want. That’s managing from afar as well. No matter how organize you are in this note business, it is going to require management skills with people and systems. That’s critical.

I’m laughing because we had somebody who was assisting us on some tasks and so forth, and they completely flaked on us. It goes back to a lot of things we’ve already said. It’s like one issue to the next. I still do manage construction projects. Every day you wake up not knowing what’s going to hit the fan. You go from one problem to the next and you’re putting out fires. It feels like putting out the proverbial fires of issues. The last two items I want to talk about are it’s a high-risk business because you don’t get to see the inside of the property. You’re relying on people. Typically, the people you’re relying on are low-paying. Let’s take a BPO. A BPO is done by some associate who probably gets paid $10 to $20 to go take photos and hands it to an agent who puts it in the system. Sometimes, he may even look at the photos or probably not. He runs out what are some comps that sold in the area. He puts it on a piece of paper, wrote some number to it and sends it to you, “Here is the $150.” The reality is if somebody is probably making $10 to $20 that physically saw that property and doesn’t know what they’re doing, they’re looking at it and relays that information.

The BPO realtors, the ones that do BPOs, I’m not bashing them, but if they’re not working on multimillion-dollar deals, they’re doing BPOs. They’re not the most experienced realtors either.

The next is your servicers. I have nothing against servicers, but debt collectors on average probably make minimum wage in many states, $15 an hour. Many of them are good at what they do, but in the same token, compared to management level people like your attorneys who charge you $200, $300, $400 an hour, is somebody on the lower scale from that perspective. With the attorneys, you got to be careful with them and what they do. It’s something with a lot of risks involved to try and value an asset.

Not seeing the inside of the property is one reason some people to originate their own notes because they’ve been inside the property or at least, they’ve got boots on the ground. They typically bought the property and seller financing it. Whereas when you’re buying a note, you’re not only getting to see the inside of that property and that collateral value is critical in this business.

The last is with this business, it’s a learn by doing. There are no formal training programs out there. I don’t personally believe that taking a weekend course can give you the information you need. We talked about how my wife got me for our anniversary a subscription to Mindvalley, which is interesting. People should Google and look it up. One of the things they mentioned is what traditional learning is. Let’s say you read a book, 80% of what you read, you have forgotten the next day. If you’re taking some type of training that is ten hours long over a course of a weekend. You took twenty hours of training. If you’re lucky, you may recall four hours of that, which if you’re paying $10,000, $15,000 or $20,000 for this training. You don’t know a lot of this stuff, so four hours is probably a gift, but that’s still somewhere between $2,500 to $4,000 an hour. Are you better off taking that $10,000 and go buying a performing note? I don’t know but that’s one of the challenges.

There’s no true formal training in this business. I view formal training as something that is over 3 or 6 months. You’re not going to learn this business on a weekend. You’re not going to learn it in six months, but at least take the time to go through. Spend two weeks on breaking down a tape or even longer, or break it into twenty-minute segments of certain criteria so people thoroughly understand it, and give them real-world examples of how to institute it in the real world. Most of the time, you’re sitting around a table. Conferences and stuff are good because you can pick up a lot of things. For somebody starting out, you’ll pick up little things, but how does it relate to real-world and real-life situations? It’s such a niche industry so it’s like selling snowblowers in Florida. Nobody has a snowblower business in Florida because to do it and put it together cost a lot. What is the real demand for it? That’s the challenge.

There are some decent starter programs and some training programs that are for more advanced note investors out there. The defense of the people who put together these programs, not that either of us is attacking them at all, but it’s impossible to put together something that’s going to meet the needs of 20 or 100 different people in the program and then somehow predict or foresee what’s going to happen in which way they want to go. There are many different ways you can go in this business. That’s impossible. That is where consulting programs and long-term programs can come into play.

It sounds like I am, but I’m not knocking. There are programs out there that are valuable that provide good content based on specific needs or interests that are much lower in cost from that perspective. This is just my opinion. I’m a firm believer that I don’t care whether it’s stock trading, day trading, fix and flips, wholesaling, MLM schemes or whatever it is, I truly don’t believe that you can be good at anything over the course of a weekend.

I agree with you. You can get a four-year degree and it doesn’t mean you’re going to be good at anything. We’re not knocking it at all, but you got to go and apply it. I know that’s how I learned is by doing.

This goes to a lot of these certain programs. If you’ve ever watched psychology behind these training, I’m not relating to any specific training, but there was one on stock trading. My sister-in-law was going for a weekend and my wife was like, “Can you please go make sure she doesn’t pay for some expensive training course?” What they do is these trainings is they’ll spend the weekend showing you examples of how you can make all this money. They intentionally jump around and give you little snippets like “You can do this and by doing this, you do this.” I’m not saying this happens in notes because I haven’t taken those super expensive or any real true note training programs. Their playbook is to be disorganized and not give you a clear path of how to get there. They just want to show you what the end result is by confusing what that path is to make you think like, “I need somebody to show me.”

There are videos and books about this. They intentionally convolute everything and give you snippets of good information on a few things, but never give you any meat on that bone. It’s all intentional to be like, “It’s a disorganized world, but if I come with you, you are going to guide me down that path and lead me to prosperity.” The people who are successful, I would question would they have been successful with or without that training. Typically, most successful people have some type of mentor but at the end of the day, they’re the ones that got to take the bull by the horns.

I worked with somebody in my real job. We’d have these shared tasks that nobody wanted to do but it’s a team. If you have downtime, you go and do it. She would always say, “Nobody trained me on this so I’m not going to do it.” It’s like, “Nobody trained me either, but I’m doing it.” I don’t want to do it. She’d started coming to me to figure out how to do it. It’s like, “I don’t know how I became the resident expert here, but it’s because I was doing it.”

You would have said, “Who trained you how to pick your nose?”

This topic reminds me of having kids. I was doing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu with my kids and COVID put an end to that. If you want to contract COVID, there’s not a better way than up close and personal martial arts. Anyway, when the kids were doing that with me, we’d go for a month or something and then I’d say, “We’ve got to get in the car to go to Jiu-Jitsu.” My daughter was like, “I already know that.” It is because she had a few sessions. It is a lifelong process. You have black belts that have been training for twenty years and they don’t know Jiu-Jitsu. You’re never done. Training is good for sure but go out, do an experiment, figure it out, and then go get some more training along the way.

Training 100% is good. The challenge I see in this business and I’m saying this from the two perspectives. One is I haven’t gone out and taken it so some people are saying, “You’re a hypocrite.” I’m just taking the feedback I get from people. We hear from a lot of people when we talk about, ask questions or stuff about the show. I do speak my mind on certain things and I’m not afraid to call it as I see it. At the same time, taking that feedback and hearing what they explained to me. When I talk about formal training, I’m referring to something that is a long-term growth strategy that breaks down, and goes through every single item over a period of time. After you learned about bankruptcy, and then somebody hopping on a call with you to go through, “What did you learn? Jamie, what’s the difference between Chapters 7 and 13?”

If you say that you don’t know, I’d be like, “Go back and take that training,” because you didn’t learn what you’re supposed to learn. I’m thinking more of a graded program almost that is out there. You talk about FINRA and having certain series licenses. We have to take tests and so forth there. I have an MLO license. I had to go through some type of program or something to get certified. It is the same thing with fix and flippers, there’s no training on that. Honestly, that is also learning by doing. It’s what this business is, but also it makes it harder to get in because it’s difficult to get a broad depth understanding. We talked about the Top Ten Reasons Why Not To Invest In Notes. Are you going to stop investing in notes after this, Jamie?

No, I’m not. I’m trying to continue to grow my portfolio.

That’s good. To tag along into our segment and to wrap it up, what is your Note and Bolt for the day?

My Note and Bolt is when you’re looking at a deal, when you’re evaluating a deal to buy a note, you need to try to approach it from two angles. One is the engineering/mathematician angle of running the numbers, but the other is more of the liberal arts angle of understanding the story. I’m not suggesting you spend 40 hours evaluating a note deal before you make an offer, but every deal has that both aspects to it. I heard this from Kevin Shortle, to give him credit, which made me think about it. I relate it to fantasy football. You have these old-school fantasy football or football analysts who are good at understanding the human element. They watched the game film and they get these football players are people.

On the flip side, especially now with more of the daily fantasy sports, you’ve got more of the numbers people. They’re more into the analytics and crunching the numbers, but they don’t even watch a single down. The people that most successful can do both. They understand that you got to crunch the numbers. On a performing note, your yield needs to be there, but there’s also a story. If you can try to parse out both of those, when looking at a note deal, you’re going to be more successful.

That was deep.

That might have been my best Note and Bolt.

Mine is going to be seven words. If you have a borrower who files bankruptcy, Chapter 7 or 13 and it’s dismissed, meaning that it gets thrown out for some reason, it’s like it never occurred. For example, I had a pool that I bought and there was a second in this pool. The property was at the time upside down. They filed bankruptcy, which in there it talked about how the second would get stripped. There’s something in there that the second was getting lost. I bought this and as time went on, and as I always say, “I let it sit in the file sometimes.” I reached out to the attorney because they were still doing the act of bankruptcy. I went and checked, and I saw that it was dismissed after two years.

I reached out to the attorney and I was like, “Is there anything with this?” They’re like, “Yes, now that it’s been dismissed, it is like it never happened so you’re not stripped.” The interesting thing is the I put a lot of money towards the first thinking the second was stripped, so we weren’t doing anything with it. Now, there’s equity in the property because they paid down the first. I’m in the second position and my balance is greater than the first at this point in time. All of a sudden I’m like, “Now, I have something. Miss attorney, go do something with this.”

It’s interesting that it’s not over until a certain person sings. While they might be on stage singing, the song isn’t over. You never know what can happen. In this case, the person is like BK. They threw it in as part of the pool because they were closing out their fund and wanting to get off the books and stuff. Lo and behold, it gets dismissed so it’s like it never happened. It’s like the movie with Will Smith, Men and Black, where they flash in front of you and you forget everything that happened. What do you need to do when it is dismissed? The simple one is a dismissed bankruptcy is like it never exists. Do you have any final thoughts before we wrap up this episode?

No, Sir. We are good to go.

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