Powerful Strategies For Building A Note-Exchange Platform With Richard Allen And Brett Burky

July 21, 2021




GDNI 161 | Note-Exchange Platform


Starting up a business is never an easy road. It comes with the most unexpected twists and turns. Jamie Bateman talks with the Co-Founders of Paperstac, Richard Allen and Brett Burky, about their respective backgrounds and professional experiences in note investing, the challenges, and how they handled those circumstances. Rick and Brett elaborate on the uniqueness of their platform. Also Paperstac’s marketing director, Brett shares how he started his career path by just running online traffic, doing it for other companies, agencies, and start-ups, and bringing his expertise and knowledge to Paperstac. They then discuss mortgage notes, sources of notes, all card closing products, and the importance of synchronized communication on the platform.

Listen to the podcast here:

Powerful Strategies For Building A Note-Exchange Platform With Richard Allen And Brett Burky

Welcome everybody to another episode. I’m joined by two special guests, Rick Allen and Brett Burky of Paperstac. I’m sure a lot of our audience is already familiar with you guys. How are you guys doing?


We’re doing well. Thanks for having us. We appreciate it.

Anything new in your world personally?

GDNI 161 | Note-Exchange Platform

Note-Exchange Platform: The biggest differentiator that’s important is focused on the transaction engine, harnessing the digital environment, and effective communication in the platform.


I had knee replacement surgery. I was ill-prepared for how difficult this one was going to be. My left knee was scoped, a knee surgery, very light. I was back up and add it within 3 or 4 days. This one, I was like, “It won’t be bad.” I was shocked. The doctor said it was the worst knee seen for somebody my age. He said he was in there with a hammer and chisel, so I was like, “Cool.” It’s been rough, but we’re getting along. I’m up and at it, so that’s good.

Brett, let me know about the knee surgery. We were joking that we were going to get you all hopped up on painkillers and then we can find out what you think.

We wanted to bring you on and touch a little bit on your background, but primarily focus on Paperstac, the platform and the company, and what you guys have been up to down in Orlando. What do you see in the near term and the future for Paperstac and the note space? Any trends and that kind of thing. For those in the audience who are not familiar with you, Brett, why don’t you start with a little bit of your background?

I’m the guy who basically Paperstac runs for support and marketing and all those things, trying to bring in traffic and new people. My background is in marketing. I come from an extensive background since 2005, running online traffic, did it for other companies, agencies, startups, and brought that to Paperstac. I didn’t bring the note knowledge. I’ve learned a lot along the way, but that’s my primary focus. I love that part of it. I love looking at the metrics of trying to get the numbers better for paid search, ranking, so that’s my background.

There’s a lot to the marketing piece. Anybody who’s run any kind of business realizes quickly that marketing is important. Rick, a little bit about your background.

I’ve been investing in distressed assets since 2005. When the market was going bananas, I got into working for a nationwide wholesale firm, sourcing investment inventory and originating hard money. I did that for about three years and then started my own company with a couple of cofounders of buying and selling naturally distressed houses. In 2011, at the end of it, I sold off. I was going to have a lifestyle business and I was going to kind of kick it, play golf, raise my kids. Three months into it, I stepped into a steaming pile of mortgage notes and got it all over everywhere and went full speed ahead into it. Along the way, it was like, “Let’s make up a platform.” My partner, TJ and I created a platform. It was called Investment Note Exchange. We outsourced all development overseas and got back a pile of junk. It’s bad. I bumped into Brett at Publix. I’ve known Brett probably since ‘98. We went to college together. We probably knew some of the same people prior to that because we grew up really close to each other.

We knew a lot of the same people. He lived a couple of doors down and would get a party at our house or party at his house. It was nice.

We brought Brett in and he helped us out. Our third cofounder, Mike, I ended up knowing him and he came in and looked at our product that we got from India. He’s like, “Nope, we need to start all over.” Fortunately, we started from scratch with a new founding team. Fortunately, Brett being the brainiac he is, said, “Investment Note Exchange isn’t a great name. We should probably do something a little more marketable.” We all put our collective heads together.

It was the two E’s for me. I was like, “Note exchange.” Let’s see if we’re going to mess this up all over the place. I was like, “It’s going to be messy.” It was long.

We must’ve kicked around ideas and Paperstac is what came out of it.

It was a joke. We were looking around the room and I was like, “It’s a paper stack.” It was all these mortgage notes. We try to buy the one with the K and some dude owns it and won’t let it go. I was like, “Without the k is available.” It looks better. It’s very modern. I was like, “That’s good.” At the time, we didn’t think about it. We were thinking notes in general, but this is applicable to any type of vertical of paper stacks.

If you guys keep doing well, that guy might be trying to buy the one with the C from you.

He’s a unique guy. If you go to Paperstack.com, he’s in England. He hosts dance studios and tea parties. He’s got a weird cat called Mr. Jinx. It’s funny. He doesn’t put a bunch of effort into the website. It’s more like a hobby. It’s funny. The first thing he says in the website is it’s not for sale.

That’s probably we hit him up every six months.

Even for the advanced note investor, it is good to have that checklist to just keep you on track. Click To Tweet

I didn’t realize you guys had known each other that long. That’s neat. As far as Paperstac, the platform, which we’ve already touched on a little bit, but for those people who are unfamiliar, I know most of our audience is familiar with Paperstac. I know I personally recommend it to people. It’s a great platform to start out with as far as buying notes and continue to use for buying, selling, all kinds of things. It’s very high on my list as far as sites to find sources of notes. For those who are unfamiliar, if you guys don’t mind, give a broad overview of what is Paperstac.

Paperstac is a marketplace for mortgage notes, land contracts and CFDs. It also has hundreds of sellers. They’re not always on there, all of them, but I wish. It would be nice. It’s sellers from all ranges from hedge funds to seller-financed notes, other different types of sellers. We were over almost 9,000 users on the site, all active, but there’s a lot of people that are on for years. The thing that our secret sauce, the fun part is that we have the transaction engine. For a lot of note buyers that might have never bought a note, don’t know the exact closing process, might know how to do due diligence on a note, but haven’t known how to go to the closing, we made it ironclad where the documents are well-vetted and looked over by lawyers multiple times.

Over time, we’ve improved the documents based off the transactions where, “That should be included in the PSA.” We only know the PSA is good because of transactions where, “We should have that somewhere in the PSA because that will protect the buyer because of this.” As a buyer, it’s a very good transaction process and for the seller too because the seller has been able to not have to worry about his collateral going to somebody. It solves that one thing of, “Send me the money or will you send me the collateral?” We figured that part out with the escrow and the audit. It’s good because it’s timestamped. We will help out if there’s something that a buyer or seller needs.

It’s to facilitate the process and transactions.

Our efficiency was the biggest thing. I’ve closed deals on Paperstac and I’ve closed deals off Paperstac. Using Paperstac, for me, it’s well worth it. It’s makes everything so easy. The transparency of the collateral audit and the escrow makes it to where you can do business with anybody. You don’t have to know them. It’s been a hit so far.

As far as other competitors out there, if you don’t mind talking about that a little bit, what are some of the other platforms and how are they maybe a little bit different?

Obviously, NotesDirect in the retail space is going to be our biggest competitor. They’re established. They’ve been around a while. They’re maybe not necessarily as open as a platform as we are and not just their process, but anybody else in our space. They don’t have that end-to-end solution. They don’t have a synchronized communication on the platform. Doc generation doesn’t happen on the platform. Escrow and audit are not baked into the platform. Most of the other marketplaces out there is just a marketplace. Once you go, it’s time to start buying and selling. It moves back the old way of doing things with emails, spreadsheets and attorneys. That’s the biggest differentiator is we focused on harnessing the digital environment, having in a walled garden.

It’s nice to know that if I’m communicating on the platform and I said something, I know exactly where I can find it right in my time. I don’t have to go searching through email strings. If I’m doing business with one person and I’ve got multiple deals going on with them and it’s through email, who knows where I said what on which email string or which what they said it. It becomes a nightmare. Those are probably some of the biggest differentiators.

I’ve used both platforms. I don’t think I’ve bought through Notes Direct, but one other thing that I do like about Paperstac is that you can negotiate the price. With Notes Direct, it’s a fixed price. I could be wrong about that, but for newer note investors, I recommend both those sites to check out as far as being able to see some pricing, what’s out there and also running maybe some initial due diligence and getting your feet wet a little bit. Even for the more advanced note investor, it is good to have that checklist to keep you on track. The record of the transaction of exactly what’s been said, uploaded and all that stuff, I’ve found that valuable myself too. As far as things you all are working on with the site, are there any updates that we should be aware of or anything that’s in the works?

There are quite a few things. We’re wrapping up our partners portal, which will allow us to onboard KC Wilson as our collateral audit company. It’s going to open up a whole suite of services from due diligence to recording, to imaging, to a bunch of other options, even a more in-depth collateral audit that can be ordered right from our platform. I’m excited about that. Shortly after that, we will have launched an ala carte closing product. If you’ve already got the seller, you’re the buyer and you don’t need the platform and you want to do a discounted closing, you can utilize our closing process.

I’m not going on the site to find the deal. I already have the deal set up, but I don’t have my purchase sale agreement, all the documents necessary, so I can use your platform to execute the transaction, not so much find the deal, is that right?

GDNI 161 | Note-Exchange Platform

Note-Exchange Platform: You don’t have to go searching through email strings because if I’m doing business with one person and you have multiple deals going on with them, it’s through email.


Exactly. We’re going to make it available to other platforms. Other marketplaces will have the ability to start transitioning from a marketplace. It moves offline to allow them to start utilizing our closing backend, so that’ll be nice out there. The final thing is we’re diving into an enterprise product that will cater towards more institutional level trades. Maybe trades that are happening that are maybe a $10 million trade or $20 million, $30 million, $40 million, $50 million trade. Opening it up to the enterprise customers, the guys who are the Roosevelts, the Apollos, the folks who are true are buying and selling large amounts of inventory, we’ll have an enterprise product out there for them to use. That is huge because it’s going feed our retail marketplace as well.

We’re already seeing some cutting stuff. We’re seeing some actual banks come onto the platform and start acquiring and liquidating through the platform. The more enterprise stuff we can provide them. It’s going to feed the retail marketplace for the guys in the retail space. We call it the retail space for the lack of a better term. Maybe the folks who are operating with $10 million or less in capital, it’s going to more inventory and stuff to choose from. It should help with competitive pricing and that’s good.

Brett likes the sayings. I do listen to your podcast. Brett, you’ve got all the sayings nailed. With our show, Chris and I definitely like to try to keep it real and nothing’s perfect. There’s no perfect asset class. There’s no perfect exchange platform. At the risk of making this episode sound like a Paperstac advertisement, why don’t we pivot and focus on a couple of things that maybe have not gone as well as you would’ve hoped besides things that you’re working on, but to make the site better. Things that maybe have not been a failure but not gone as well as you would’ve hoped. Does anything come to mind?

Development, in general, takes forever. We’ve done good and built a company with very small amount of funding. We’ve had one developer. For one developer to put together our platform, it’s ridiculous. When people say full stack developer and they use that term loosely, I’m very intentional when I say it. Mike is hands down the best developer I’ve ever seen. I remember when we were first launching, we went to a note school event. We went there. We didn’t have much of anything. We had a log-in screen. Somebody was there and Mike was showing him the logon screen and they walked up and they go, “What are you even doing here? Why are you even here?”

Mike wants to find that guy at every conference. He’s like, “Where’s that guy?”

I was maybe misinformed whenever I raised capital for buying notes. It was a one-shot, one-kill. I walked into somebody’s office with a spreadsheet. I showed them what they did, what we were doing. They said, “I’ll give you $1 million. Do you want it all today?” That was my first experience raising capital. I was like, “Shit, raising capital is easy.” When we go to raise capital for a startup, it’s been very challenging, especially locally where we are in Florida. That’s been something that has been more of a challenge than you expected.

For me, one time when we thought we were getting funding and we have been going for four months and it looked like it was a done deal. I had already told my wife and all this stuff. Last-minute, they pulled out and I didn’t even tell her that we did get funding for like two weeks. I felt so bad. I’m not going to get the full salary and all these things like that. It was like one of those things where we were so down in the dumps. I remember TJ. It was the funniest thing. He said something, came into the office and was yelling. He was like, “It’s like you don’t even want to be here.” He got all mad. He’s like, “I got to go because I got to go pick up my kid.” I’m like, “You said we don’t want to be here. You’re walking out the door.” It was funny, the timing. It was like, “Get back on the horse. The show is not over. Let’s go. Let’s kick ass.” It was in December and then I was like, “We’re not giving up.” We started to get going.

It’s important for people to see entrepreneurship and starting a startup, it’s not easy. It has ups and downs and it’s a roller coaster. Did you have something to add on to that, Rick?

Right when we launched Paperstac, it was probably four months after we launched. We’ve already started doing a rewrite, but we had somebody bring us a transaction and they’re like, “I’m buying ten loans. I’ve already got the seller. I’m the buyer. It’s a $1 million transaction. I need to use your platform.” We make 2%, so it’s $20,000. We’re like, “Yeah, perfect. We need this.” That transaction was the worst transaction. They didn’t use the platform. The platform kept getting errors. We ended up making $10,000 off of it and the other guy goes, “Here, I’m going to give you $10,000 and an advice. Get out of this business and don’t do it anymore.” That was one of those things where it’s tough. It’s like somebody calling your kid ugly. You’re like, “That was brutal,” but use it as motivation, move forward, refine, get better. It’s been along the way. From day one, everybody has told us, “You can’t do it.”

You go to conferences and people were like, “It’s not even legal.” I’m like looking it up. “This is legal.” It is, but the laws were so new with the notarization, E-Signature Act. Even like friends and family, they would always say, because it took so long to get going, it’s like, “You either put it all in or you don’t,” and it’s like, “Are you all in or not?” My dad would always say like, “You got all this talent and you could be making a couple of $100,000 and you’d easily be at a company. Why are you doing this? You’re scraping by to make this happen.” I’m like, “I don’t want to look back and say I wish I would’ve.” It was funny. My wife, one time, when I was scratching her arm or back and we’re all watching TV. She’s like, “Scratch me slower like your Paperstac launch.”

She’s Native Russian. Some of the stuff that she says to Brett with her accent.

One time, I had no beer during the week. I’m like, “Yeah, sure.” I was out in the garage working and she walks out and it was like 8:00 or 9:00. I was working and I had a beer. I’m in the garage. I went around the corner and she walked in. She’s like, “It’s time to turn off your light.” I was like, “What light?” She goes, “Your Miller Light.”

That’s one of the most challenging things. Not that I’ve ever done a startup like you guys at all, but being an investor or a small business owner is one of the most difficult things trying to figure out. If I pivot, is that quitting? What do I listen to? If you keep going full steam ahead, banging your head against the wall, maybe that’s not the way to go. Figuring out, at those low points, how to maneuver your business and maybe adjust your goals and move forward. The fact that you guys have kept moving forward, I think it’s impressive. Speaking of moving forward, I know you already touched on some of the projects and the things on the horizon for the platform, but where do you see the note space going forward? I would guess, Rick, this is probably more for you, but I know you guys do the market report every six months. I don’t know if you have any insight into trends or things like that.

Entrepreneurship and starting a start-up are not easy. It has ups and downs. It's a roller coaster. Click To Tweet

Right now, we’re seeing an influx of inventory on the platform. We closed out in June 2021 with our highest number of assets available. Inventory is starting to creep up. They’re going to start to see as the foreclosure moratoriums walk through, you’re going to see people starting to liquidate some assets. Pricing will probably remain pretty competitive. It seems like people are getting good value for their dollar for their assets on the platform. The retail space for us is going to continue to grow as we start working with more and more of the smaller to mid-tier guys who have a lot of assets available. We onboarded somebody who’s got $25 million credit line and said they can commit to around 600 assets a quarter. They’re bleeding them in right now, but as you start getting those folks on the platform, it’s going to make for a richer opportunity for everybody on the platform. It’s going to continue to expand and grow.

I don’t have any reason not to think the same thing. Circling back on one thing. You mentioned, “Is it legal,” Brett. I was curious myself. Is there any kind of like broker license or anything you guys need to get? I know you’re not attorneys, not legal advice, but how does that work as far as licensing and the legality of the platform?

We can’t go out and promote to broker deals for people. We can’t advertise. We’re providing an open-source for people to buy and sell assets. That’s it.

You’re a neutral party. Therefore, your broker license doesn’t apply?

Thus far no.

That gets asked a lot. People will say, “Is this seller good? Have they sold or are they a good seller? Which one should I buy?” For me, I’m always like, “I can’t tell you that. I’m not a judiciary.” When we did have that down leak moment in Paperstac internally as a company, we did come out of it, though. At that point, Mike, the developer, was worried because we were going to go and we put a lot into it. The people that looked over us said we weren’t thinking big enough in terms of enterprise or in terms of whatever. You lock Mike in a room for a week and he’ll come out with something crazy and that’s exactly what he did. That’s the vision that we have now. It came from that bleak moment.

We always knew we were going to be going enterprise, but it was further down the road.

When you say enterprise, what does that mean exactly?

It means catering to the big transactions. Right now, the retail space accounts for 0.5%. The secondary market is $789 billion are traded annually in the secondary market. You look at what’s going on Paperstac right now and it’s like 0.5% of that. Redirecting or providing software to the folks that are handling the 99.5% of that exposes Paperstac to obviously a much deeper and wider revenue pool, but also it helps build the retail marketplace by introducing that other 99.5% of the inventory available that’s traded annually.

Another question I get from people is, does Paperstac do any kind of screening? We touched it a little bit already.

For buyers, it’s not so much because there’s a bunch of people showing up, but we do the ID verification.

That’s probably the biggest thing is we verify everyone’s identity. You can come on there on a trial basis, but if you’re going to start doing transactions, your identity has been verified, which means you’ve gone through and you’ve passed through some verification processes. I know who you are and I have your identity.

We don’t have it.

I don’t, but whoever our third-party vendor is, verifies, “Yes, this person is who they say they are,” which then, if we want to, we can run KYCs or Know Your Customer or an AML, which is an Anti-Money Laundering background on anybody on the platform at any given time. It’s huge because it is something that we needed to have in place definitely for the larger clientele. They’re like, “We need to be able to verify identities.” On the selling side, it’s bringing people’s assets in through a servicer is one way, but the easiest way to verify or to provide some security is through our collateral on it.

GDNI 161 | Note-Exchange Platform

Note-Exchange Platform: When available to other platforms, the synchronized communication will result in other marketplaces having the ability to sort of start transitioning from just a marketplace.


Preemptively when they come on as a seller, I’ll ask them a number of questions. It seems to be not so much because it is a smaller market. If I go to LinkedIn and look up this company name or the person, something like that, are they connected to you or to other people in the industry? I see how that web works. It’s that whole idea of six degrees of separation.

At the end of the day, and I’ve told people this, and I think I mentioned this on your podcast, I don’t expect Paperstac to vet the person I’m transacting with. I hope you can do some level of due diligence on them, but at the end of the day, you’re just bringing us together. It’s on me as a buyer or seller to determine who I want to do business with. At least that’s my personal view.

There is a limit. If somebody comes and drives a Christmas through the site, which we don’t have that anymore. I have not had someone come and do that in the longest time.

Can you explain to the people what that means?

Basically, they go down the list. They’re trying to maybe broker all your deals. They go ahead and give you the offer.

They blast offers out. They’ll go in and offer $0.50 cents on the dollar for your sales price. We pride ourselves in like, “You can negotiate.” That’s the purpose of the platform. Some are firm, some are blind options, but when somebody comes in and they offer half of what you’re asking for no basis, those people usually go away quickly.

There’s a flag in place. It’s over five transactions. Maybe someone legit is curious like five in a day, but a lot of times, they’re going to waste your time and maybe shop it out. Once the identity thing comes in place and they have to usually talk to the platform somehow and you can start to see it, they go away. It’s at the protection of our sellers. We want both great buyers, great sellers, but sellers put a lot of effort into creating a seller listing and putting all the note data and files.

They have the inventory.

I’ve had this happen to me. Rick, you were talking on one of your own episodes about buyers saying, “How much did they put down or what was the down payment on this deal?” That happened to me where it’s like, “I’m selling this note that was originated in 2005.” I’m like, “Have you ever bought a note before? Do you know what you’re talking about?” It has no bearing on anything. The property value has gone way up since then. It’s not relevant. That kind of thing is annoying, but I don’t know that you can fully weed that behavior out. That’s not the worst thing that could be happening on a site like yours. You have your fund as well, is that right, Rick? How does that all play together? How does Paperstac work with your fund?

We do have a fund. I haven’t had not much active management in the fund, but the fund is actively as buying and selling on the platform. Prior to having the SEC money with meaning fund, we had a friends and family fund. We’ve begun winding down. It’s almost closed out, but we built Paperstac for that fund. It’s our liquidating assets. I would say money with meeting fund. They’re a customer of Paperstac. They list stuff on there and that’s the extent of it. They’ll buy occasionally off the platform. That’s it. They’re an active user. Always providing feedback, which is good.

They ask questions and support like everyone else has questions and support. Now that we’re all remote and we come in the office, but TJ, he works from home. I never see him anymore. Him and Miriam, maybe every so often randomly, need to stop by our house or something, but we don’t ever see him. It’s like, “How you been? What do you need help with?” He had the vision with Rick and he’s like, “It’s neat.” They’ll say things like, “How do I do this?” I’m like, “You go and do this and that,” because he doesn’t know.

Everybody who has told you that you can't do it probably don’t have the knowledge that you have. Do it and amaze them. Click To Tweet

I was like, “You guys finally did this?” He’s like, “Yeah. It’s already on the site. It goes right there,” or like private listing. That’s one people don’t know about. Very few people use that feature. It’s one of those things where you have your buyer already. It’s the lead into having the white-labeled note closing thing where it can be at anything. It’s already there. If you create a listing, there’s a button that says private listing and you’re given a link. He already had somebody who’s like, “I want to sell it to this guy. I don’t want to put it on the marketplace and do all this. How do I do that? Is that possible?” He’s like, “Yeah. I have a list. Click the button, get a link, send it to him. He’s the only one who sees it.”

I can imagine that only adds to the value of your platform. You have to a built-in feedback mechanism there.

The feedback loop is always there, which is great. It’s always constantly having somebody who can pick up the phone and call you and say, “Can you do this?” That’s one of the things. It’s not necessarily always like, “Can we build this?” If it’s already there and he doesn’t know how to use it and he’s an owner in the company, let’s figure out how we can make it to where everybody understands it. It’s been great having the constant feedback loop. It certainly helps out the fund being tied into a platform that can liquidate assets easily. It used to be an advantage, but there are so many different funds coming on, liquidating assets that everybody can do it. As we break out closings and offer white-label, it’ll be even that much more of a benefit to other funds or trade defs.

We got something that’s been on there for a long while now. I guess people don’t see it. Dan Deppen was like, “How long have you guys had this?” The notes feature. If somebody is not reaching back out. After three days, a little button comes up and says, “Nudge the person.”

I don’t know if Chris was the first one to suggest that, but I know he mentioned that before. He was nudging you about that.

How do you do this nicely? What’s the thing? Nudge was an excellent way of saying, “Where you been? What’s going on?”

As we start to wrap up here, guys, if you don’t mind that we normally like to leave our readers with a Note and Bolt. I didn’t give you a heads up at all about this. This could be any kind of tidbit of information, whether it’s for a new note investor, buyer, or seller, anybody. Maybe even you want to look back on your career as far as business owners and a mistake you’ve made and what you would do differently, something like that. If each of you wouldn’t mind providing a Note and Bolt for our readers, that’d be great.

Set up your processes in advance. You’re never going to be able to scale a business or grow it. If you have to do something 1, 2, or 3 times, set up a process for it to reduce that work, the answer should never be, “I’m going to work harder.” You should always try to create some efficiency tools out there. Focus on the processes and the devil is in the details. If it’s a due diligence and you’re running due diligence, have your process sheet of like, “We bring an asset in to start looking at it and figure out if you’re going to buy it. Here’s the process. Here’s what we do,” and have those checks and balances in place. That’s going to allow you to start scaling quicker if you put that structure in place.

Having the right team is also one of the very important things. Having people that bring different talents. You can’t have four chiefs. That’s a very important thing when you’re setting up your team for definitely the startup. I’ve done multiple startups. People will say, “Let’s do this.” Make sure you’re working because your time’s valuable. You don’t want to spend a couple of years working with someone who’s not all in. It’s like, “Are you in or are you out?” Your time’s precious. Finding those right partners for me has been very important. I’m lucky that I have three that all bring something different. It’s great. Mike is a strictly developer, but his business acumen is amazing as well.

There’s no echo chamber in our meetings. We’re not afraid to break up an echo chamber and challenge the status quo, which is good.

It’s been definitely keeping a lifeline. We keep stats. Every morning at 8:00, what’s my actual cost per conversions to how much inventory. We know when inventory drops. It’s at this level and all of a sudden, a day later, it drops to 40. It’s like, “What happened? What expired?” Being on top of your business, never coasting because if you start to coast, that’s when things fall off the rails. Sit down in a meeting type thing where it’s like, “Brett, what’s over the conversion cost? Why is it high this week?” “I went on vacation. I didn’t even look at it. That one went rogue and screwed it all up.” Being able to be accountable. We are very organized. For me, if I hear somebody say something support-wise, I put that into, “This needs to be put into an article or a message.” Writing the same thing over and over again, it’s never fun.

Ultimately, that’s what a business is. It’s people and processes. You hit on both of those.

You said that you had a book you’re reading called something.

On your podcast, I said the wrong last name. I said, Dan Kennedy, but it’s Dan Sullivan. I get to correct myself right here right now.

I read Psycho-Cybernetics, which is like an NLP book, which is a good one.

I finished up Who Not How and now I’m reading a book that’s all about how. It’s A World Without Email, Cal Newport, who wrote Deep Work. It’s nice to say who not how, and the who is very important for sure, like you said, Brett, but I think the how is pretty important as well. Both things are important. Guys, this has been great. I appreciate your time. Our readers are going to get a lot of value out of this. You have your own podcast and if we drew a Venn diagram with our audience and your audience would probably overlap. Anything else that you’d like to leave our readers as far as where they can reach out to you?

Thanks for the questions because we’ve had interviews before, but we’ve never an in-depth on the Paperstac rollercoaster. That’s been nice. It’s different than the normal, “Here’s the features and stuff.” Thanks for that. They can find us at Paperstac. Go to the platform and set up a safe search, take a look around. That’s the easiest thing to do. You don’t have to come every day and look for stuff. Set up a safe search. Let it come to you.

You have your YouTube channel and your podcast. Is there anything else you want to mention, Rick?

I appreciate coming on. It’s always good seeing you.

Thanks a lot. I appreciate it. For all of our readers, please go out and do some good deeds. Thanks, everyone. Take care.

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About Rick Allen

GDNI 161 | Note-Exchange PlatformRick is a Husband and a Father and he has always been an entrepreneur.  He loves to positively impact people’s lives and disrupt markets.

Rick’s current projects both revolve around the distressed debt market and disrupting how mortgage notes are traded.

His company Paperstac, is the first fully digital online process for buying and selling mortgage notes. Paperstac.com

As a co-founder at MWM fund, Rick and his team focus on deploying capital in the distressed debt space with the goal of managing for economic returns and social impact.  In short, we are saving people’s homes and giving back the American dream of homeownership.

About Brett Burky

GDNI 161 | Note-Exchange PlatformI’m a Co-Founder of Paperstac. Paperstac is the first fully digital mortgage note transaction engine.

Paperstac came from a need of ours in the Mortgage Note space. We know that it is a great investment class but it sure is antiquated. It could be scary too when you’re wiring money to strangers for mortgage notes and hoping that they would send the collateral files.

Then once you got the collateral files, you’re hoping it is exactly what they said it was and not copies.

In 2014 we set out to change that and decided the Mortgage Note industry needed an upgrade.

We’ve digitized the entire process from negotiations to contracts to notary and shipment. Paperstac takes a process that for one note can take over 2 weeks and can reduce it to hours. While with our pool feature it takes the process down from weeks to days.

Our mission is to have this help us in our goal of saving 10,000 homes. We know that if we can make the process a lot easier for us, then others will want that same technology.

That is why Paperstac is open to any asset holders. Whether you have 1 or run a trade desk and have 1000s you can use the power of Paperstac to close more deals faster and safer.

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