Getting Started On Your Real Estate Investing Journey And Securing Your Retirement With David Vernich

February 22, 2023




CWS 237 | Real Estate   Ready to take control of your financial future? In this episode, commercial lender David Vernich shares his real estate journey and how creating a secure financial future with minimal risk is possible. He shows how to start planning for retirement today and take the first step towards financial freedom. David also shares exclusive sneak peeks on his book, Middle Class To Millionaire, Making The Leap To The Next Level by David Vernich. Learn from a trusted expert who has over 30 years of experience in the industry, and see how you can make money through real estate investing! Tune in and start living the life you’ve always dreamed of!

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Getting Started On Your Real Estate Investing Journey And Securing Your Retirement With David Vernich

Our special guest is David Vernich. He is a Commercial Lender with many years of experience in the banking industry. In 2007, he partnered with other investors and began his real estate journey. Now he owns hundreds of homes in Tennessee. I’m guessing he’s busy with that. Hopefully, he has a property manager, but we’ll talk a little bit about that. Warm welcome, David. How are you? I’m doing great, Chris. Thanks for having me. Dave and I are part of a group, GoBundance, which is a membership group for individuals who are looking to continue to grow and build wealth. The definition of wealth can always vary between monetary, time or experience. We’re going to talk about an interesting topic, which is retirement planning. First, why don’t you share with us what you got going on? I’m still a W-2 employee, but I’m not working your typical 40-hour work week. I have a unique situation that people are jealous of. I do have what I call The 4-Hour Work Week as my W-2. I have a lot of extra time on my hands as a result, but it took me probably 35 years to get to that point. It’s not something you can just jump right into. It takes years to develop that, where you have the contacts to be able to produce what your employer wants you to produce in the given period of time. To answer your question, what led to that? When I turned 45, I was a commercial loan officer, and I still am to this day. It was in a 40-year plan. You had mentioned the 40/40/40, especially the 40-year plan, 40 hours a week for 40% of your income. I’m going to steal that for the future. I will reference Chris as the “original source.” Essentially, I use a metaphor of a 40-year work/retirement plan that most people are on from age 25 to 65. At 45, you’re at your halfway point running into the team locker room after halftime. It’s good to make your halftime adjustments. You’re looking at the first-half stats and mine were incredibly poor to the point where I said to myself, “If I don’t change dramatically and I am far behind eight ball, I’m going to live in a van down by the river,” like Chris Farley did at Saturday Night Live, government-subsidized cheese. My wife wasn’t working at that time. I had four sons to put through college. I was bleak in the second half. I didn’t change what I was doing on the retirement side because I was essentially putting all the money I could afford to sock away in that and get my employer match. What I did change was I looked at people I knew in my banking business that was in my commercial loan portfolio that had successfully been able to retire at a younger age. Across the board, the one thing that they had in common is they were real estate investors. I said to myself, “I need to learn how to do what they did. Knowing full well, I couldn’t do 90% of what they did. I’m not a handy guy.” What kept me out of real estate longer than anything is that I suck at anything having to do with fixing and repairing. I didn’t want to spend a lot of time doing things. I’m the poster boy for you don’t want me working on anything that requires renovations and repairs. You can put your picture next to mine. I have some stories I’ll share with you about that as we go. I had to have someone teach me the whole process so that I could figure out what value I brought to the equation. The only thing that I could do and do easily was to bring capital. Luckily, real estate investing is a capital-intensive business. If you could find enough capital and marry that with people that have the time and the skills, you’ve got yourself a successful passive income side gig where you can keep your day job and let them do all the work. A few things I want to peel back from that. One is the Matt Foley reference is awesome. Chris Farley’s character is Matt Foley in the Van Down by the River. I rewatched that and it kills me. It’s such a great skit. What I liked about what you said was peeling everything back into the 40 years. If you break it into four quarters and look at things like, “You’re starting at 25. You go 35, 45, 55, 65, and look at things from that standpoint.” A few years ago, I turned 45 and I was looking at the halftime score. I’m like, “I’m behind.” That’s where I got more involved in my side gig, which is mortgage note investing. People need to realize that it is a marathon sprint four-quarter game or however you want to look at it. It’s not a 40-yard dash. That’s what I think a lot of people look at now is they want to retire by 30 or they have these aspirations, which are great to have, but what you have to realize too is the risk that you may have to take in some of those instances. As we talk real estate, one of the things I see a lot of is people over-leveraging or getting into deals that the numbers they plug into their pro-former or the nosiest of roses. If something does go wrong on some of those assets, it can set you back seven years. It’s one thing people need to look at. You mentioned you’re not able to repair anything. I’m an Engineer by degree. I worked in construction management and real estate development for 25 years. If anything ever needs to be fixed in our house, my wife is the one who fixed it. When I look at her, she laughs at me. She goes, “You’re not touching it.” I joke, I’m like, “I have a background in Management. I can manage you on how to do that properly,” and then I’ll be sleeping on the couch for the next few days. I’m not allowed to touch anything either in my house. I wish my wife would tell me aside and I’ll do it, but I told her, “You know the best. My favorite tool in my tool belt is the checkbook.” You got into real estate and you mentioned that you noticed a lot of other people. How difficult was it to get into? You have a commercial lending background, but was it still challenging for you, or what were some of the challenges that you had with getting in involved? They’re the same challenge as everybody uses as excuses. I boil it down to two different kinds of this old jokes that probably many people have heard. The question is, “What is worse? Ignorance or apathy?” The answer is, “I don’t know. I don’t care.” I use that joke to sell people ignorant about how real estate works. They think they’ve got to do everything from A to Z. That’s what I thought. Knowing that I couldn’t repair anything essentially as far as I had to go, “I don’t know how to repair anything. How am I going to get into real estate?” That was the wrong answer. The right answer is more of who, not how. Who do I know that can do that so that I can do what I’m good at? The second part of that is apathy. Even if you know you don’t know something, do you want to fix it? Do you want to do something about it? A lot of people look at it and say, “I don’t want to do real estate because I don’t want to get the calls at 2:00 AM for the toilets.” The busted toilets are always at 2:00 AM. I’ve been real estate investing for many years and have yet to get that call. Not because they haven’t happened. It’s because I do have people that handle them, not me. If you knock down these walls one by one that keeps you from doing it and seeing what the true benefit is to you, this has supercharged my retirement. I could retire 7 or 10 years earlier than I would’ve otherwise at 100% or more in this case of my angel income that I’m getting on my W-2. You’ve got to look at the prize as well. I do want to go back to one thing you mentioned earlier because it sounds like you took the book, The 4-Hour Work Week, to heart or something because you’re only working four hours. How do you pull that off? I got to know this. Two things. One is it’s the who not the how. On my real estate side, I don’t have to get involved to a deal until I have a deal that’s ready to go. That eliminates all the looking and if you’re not doing all the looking, that’s a lot of time finding the deal. My deals come to me in my inbox. I either say yay or nay within seconds just looking at the numbers. I have the people on my team that do all the fixing up and the people doing the property management. My real estate side typically only takes fifteen minutes from what I have to be involved in. My W-2 day job, which may be your question is, “How do you get away with that?” I get a budget given to me on fee income and loans I need to book for the year. Since I’m located in an offsite office, not in a branch by myself, if I can do it all on January 2nd, in theory, they don’t need to see me the rest of the year. It’s performance-based, but it’s also 30 years of contacts where people are calling me and I’m not doing the hustle and the grind anymore. It’s interesting because I like to sometimes call myself the most active-passive investor. Similar to you in the commercial lending space, we’re in the mortgage note space. We buy mortgage notes on the secondary market. When you get back to talking about toilets, termites, and tenants, we don’t deal with them because we’re the bank. We’re the lender on the deal, but we’re also extremely active because a lot of stuff we buy is distressed. It requires a lot of management and not the management of us dealing with the borrowers, but us working with our servicing company and our attorneys to come to some type of arrangement and workout. It’s active but it’s also very passive in the sense of we don’t need to know how to fix a toilet because if you ask Wells Fargo, I’m sure they don’t know how to fix a toilet either. Now I do know how because of my background, but a lot of people who invested in our space, we’re the bank and I always like to joke similar to another one is, “If you drive to any major metropolitan city and you look at the tallest building, whose name is on top of it? Typically, it’s Chase City or a bank.” As Rockefeller said, “You want to own nothing and control everything.” There are different ways for people to get involved in real estate, and like you mentioned, you have people. One of the things I view as the most important aspect of the business is putting a team around you that is top-notch. I wouldn’t be able to do it without a team and the team looking at it from the football analogy. You got your quarterback, running backs and offensive line. If you’re trying to score points, everybody’s got to do their job. One person is going to be a skilled ball handler. Another guy is going to be a giant slab of meat that’s there to block another slab of meat from finding you. Everybody’s got their skillset. If they stay in their lane, do their job and do it better than you could do it, then you’ve got an unbeatable team. Essentially everybody's got their skillet. If they stay in their lane and do their job – and do it better than you could do it – then you've got an unbeatable team. Click To Tweet Sometimes it might not even be as better as the way you can do it because a lot of people, especially type A personalities like myself, it’s also what’s your best use of time and what is your time worth compared to others. If you say to yourself, “I would think I’m worth $100 an hour,” and it’s a task that is somebody you could pay somebody $50 an hour for. Even if it took them a 1.5-hour where it would take you 1 hour, technically it’s still better to have them do that. Whether they’re the same or even if it sometimes might even be not as great as you would do it, it’s still well above average. One of the challenges I had was letting go early on. Did you ever run into anything like that? No, because I wasn’t good at anything. I was trying to find the one thing I could do so I could join a team because it wasn’t hard to beat me in some of those areas. I had to focus on where did I bring the value. You got to be good at something because you noticed your halftime, “I need to get somewhere.” Can you talk a little bit about you knew you wanted to get into real estate? Dive a little bit deeper into the plan or what you put in place and what you found was easier than you thought it would be. What are some of the things like, “I didn’t think this would be hard?” This was 2007 when I bought my first one. I paid $6,000 to go through their class and at the end, we were going to do a house together and I was responsible for coming up with all the money for the house. I took the class, bit my tongue and did exactly what they told me to do through the whole thing, looking for the value that I brought. I realized that I wasn’t even the things I thought I could do, like finding properties. This was during a time when there were tons of foreclosures by the way. It was like shooting fish in a barrel. I still struggled even with finding the house. I was having problems getting a house and I thought this would be the easiest part. What it came down to is I figured out the easiest part was, for me anyway, getting my first property using 100% leverage, which I don’t recommend, but I didn’t have the cash to do it. What mitigated the risk of doing it that way is we bought the house for $70,000. We put $15,000 into it. When it was complete it, was worth $115,000, which totally paid back that credit line. My original plan when I was doing this before I realized I couldn’t do many of the things I needed to do was to buy one house per year from age 45 to 65 and put a 20-year loan on each house. My house at 45 would be paid off at 65. Every year afterward, every single house would be paid off. Those would generate $1,000 a month cashflow, which would be $120,000 in retirement income in the current dollars. I thought that would be a great program until I realized I couldn’t do that. I had to team up with a team and take a smaller percentage, not take 100% because when you take 100%, you get all the headaches as well. I outsourced all the headaches to people that are capable of handling them and took a smaller piece, which meant I had to have more houses than ten. We worked out a deal where I got 25% for doing the money side, bringing in the investor and also the permanent financing. I’d had 40 houses. You would think it would take a long time, but when you had the team approach, we were doing about a house a month, so 40 came about way quicker than 10 years. I don’t know if it’s just a male ego thing. You mention a partner or team with people who are like, “No, I want to do it on my own.” Putting a team together, it’s going to be written properly and make sure everyone’s on the same page of who’s doing what. If you can share resources with partners and teams, the scalability can be significant because each person might have a different expertise or specialty. It’s not easy to put together, but if you can put it together, it can be very powerful than your case in point. My case in point was I had to have a team for all the reasons I told you about before, but secondly, I had a little brainstorm and thought, “There are very few people that have all the attributes you need to be a successful real estate investor by themselves. They’re out there and I’m jealous of them because I don’t but there are people that can do it from A to Z and they don’t need to partner. For the rest of us mortals, and that’s the majority of us or the most of us knuckleheads like me who don’t want to leave their job, you need to have a team.” That’s the missing link for a lot of people. You don’t have to do it all by yourself. You don’t have to be the superstar. In real estate, you need to have a team. That's the missing link for a lot of people. You don't have to do it all by yourself. You don't have to be the superstar. Click To Tweet It took me almost five years to figure it out because I was working W-2 and running my note business. It got to a point I was doing everything, managing and so forth. I wanted to scale to the next level. It finally came to the conclusion, “In order to do so, I need to bring on a team.” I started out bringing on one person, who worked out excellently and was a perfect fit at that time. That ended up coming on full-time then we brought on eight other people. Now we have a team that works with us in our fund. I look back now and you can read all the books in the world. A lot of them are all very similar on the business side, “You want to focus on your business, not in your business.” It’s very true that once you start putting people in the right positions, it allows you to come back and start doing some of those things. Be a visionary for your company and allow the company to continue to grow, succeed and benefit everybody. That’s an important component of it. Doing it the way I do it, you could keep your day job. I kept mine as long as I could, but it came to a point where it was time for me where I probably could have still done some consulting for them, but it was more needed that a clean break. I wanted to spend 100% of my focus and time on my new journey and venture. That’s what I did. That’s another great point for people in real estate. I see a lot of people ask questions like, “How do I get into real estate? What type of job should I have? Should I quit and work in real estate?” Probably 95% of real estate investors have a W-2. It might even be higher. I’m throwing a dart at the wall there. Real estate is something that depends on how you want to do with it and take it. It can go up and down but it’s easy to do with a W-2. From a banker’s standpoint, if I’m the banker and I’m trying to lend money, I’d rather be somebody that has a W-2 income and real estate income versus somebody that said, “I quit my job. I’m going to buy my first one because I probably can’t help them.” I can’t tell you how many times I see people ask because we’re in marginal space, “Do you do private lending and stuff?” We’ll say, “We may do a deal, but we want to look at the structure and stuff.” They’re like, “I don’t have W-2.” I’m like, “Sorry, but we’re not even going to look at that because if the project doesn’t go well, I tell people. We require personal guarantees and a lot of other things that we would need. There’s no W-2 or nothing behind it.” They’re like, “Do you provide 100% financing?” I’m like, “Let me rub the little genie jar here.” You can get sometimes 100% financing but you got a fish for it and maybe get seller financing. It’s something that if you do find you may end up costing more. I don’t recommend it even if you can get it because of the risk profile. If property value drops by 20% and you’re 100% leveraged, all of a sudden, you have a tenant that leaves and damages a place. You’re stuck. I’ve learned a lot in many years of banking and one of which is, “Do not pile more money on somebody than they can prove that they can repay because ultimately you’re inviting Murphy’s Law to move in.”
CWS 237 | Real Estate

Real Estate: Do not pile more money on somebody than they can prove that they can repay because ultimately you’re inviting Murphy’s Law to move in.

  Somebody mentioned to me, and I’m curious about your thoughts, that their perfect borrower is the person who doesn’t need the money. What they mean by that is people will use the money because it’s strategic. When rates are at 3%, they may have the money that they could pay cash, but they will use it because they can put their money somewhere else for better than a 3% return than what they’re paying on the mortgage. The people who are desperate need the money are your worst type of borrowers. That is what I’ve heard. Is that true? I’ve always told my customers when they’ve had a good year that it’s time to borrow some money and they’re like, “I don’t need the money.” I tell them, “You don’t understand. You can’t get the money when you need it. You can only get it but you don’t.” I want to switch topics because you are on the commercial lending side of things. I’d like to spend a few minutes talking about that and what you’re seeing in the markets and some of the impacts that might have on overall markets. People forget that the commercial real estate market is a pretty big market. There’s been a lot going on with offices, work from home, downsizing, and retail that’s in multi-use buildings, and is taking a beating. A lot of big box retail is vacating and then strip mall owners have to repurpose some of those spaces for smaller tenants. What are some of the things you’re seeing in the space? Cap rates have gone down over the years when people were chasing deals. Interest rates have moved up while cap rates have moved down, which is a bad combination because essentially what you have there is more of the profit. The cashflow is going to pay the note and less of it’s going to use the owner. When those lines cross, it’s game over. You don’t have the cashflow generated from the property to service the debt. You also have a lot of commercial loans that have ten-year balloons on them. Things that were done many years ago are ballooning this year. Many years ago, your rate was at a very comfortable rate. Now your rate is double or more than that and your rents may have not doubled and maybe you have a vacant property now. There’s going to be a lot of weeping and mashing of teeth in the next few years as these balloons come due. I thought there was a number of over $1 trillion in loans coming due in commercial. I don’t know if that’s correct or not, but it was a very high number and it’ll be interesting to see. A lot of these deals may be syndicated, that people invest in, and syndication you invest in an individual asset that the sponsor may have raised money for. I’ve heard, especially on the multifamily side, a lot of capital calls coming in because they need to refinance and they get what’s called a DSCR loan. You have to meet certain requirements. The income is going to be a certain percentage of the debt, your mortgage payment, which might be a 1.25% ratio and those aren’t being met. The only way to meet that is to get a smaller loan, which causes potential capital calls. Are you see seeing some of that as well on some multifamily stuff? Banks have gotten much more strict on new acquisitions and not leveraging the maximum LTV that people want. Basically, people always forget this. They always put the collateral value ahead of the cashflow. It’s a loan against the cashflow secured by the collateral. it’s always cashflow first.
CWS 237 | Real Estate

Real Estate: People always forget this. They always put the collateral value ahead of the cash flow. It’s really a loan against the cash flow secured by the collateral. It’s always cash flow first.

  That’s a great point, especially on the commercial side and what they’re looking for based on that. I’m curious you mentioned banks are getting more conservative on loan-to-value, which I’m guessing means a higher DSCR. I’ve seen some people doing loans at 1% and 1.1% a few years ago and I’m like, “That is a risky play right there.” I’m curious, what are you seeing around you nowadays? I’ve seen it as high as 1.35% in the past. Typically, banks like 1.25% in good times. Even now because the incomes are being squeezed a little bit and the debt service is increasing, which is taking more of the cashflow. Even if we could do a 1.25% like you pointed out, that means we’re lending you less than we would’ve based on the appraisal. You could say, “We’ll get a 1.25%, but that’s 50% of appraised value.” “What? You were doing 80% of the appraised value before.” I’m like, “We’re maintaining that 1.25% that’s based on the cashflow.” You mentioned something else about cap rates. Somebody sent me a property that they wanted to sell at a 3.2% cap. I chuckled and laughed. Commercial rates are different than residential rates. Two questions. Where do you typically see your commercial rates or loans currently or approximately right now range? What is your prognosis of where you think cap rates are going to be headed over the future? I think cap rates are going up. That’s a big major call right there. Everyone sees that they have to come up because rates aren’t going to come down like they were to zero on the Fed side. As far as five-year rates, which is where we typically do on commercial 6.75% to 7.25% is where I’m seeing it. Prime is at 7.5%. The Fed’s meeting is on February 1st. It’s probably going to bump another quarter half a point. You could be 7.75% or 8% in February, but the long-term rates are based on the bond market. 6.75% is where we are now, but that can change depending on the bond market and how they absorb that information.
CWS 237 | Real Estate

Real Estate: Everyone sees that they have to come up because rates aren’t going to come down like they were to zero on the fed side.

  You mentioned the cap rate is going up. Historically, they’re higher than the rates because if they’re lower then you get leverage. As you’re saying, you’re killing your cashflow and it’s hurting your cash-on-cash return where Class-A properties may play right around the same cap rate as interest rates, but typically they’re slightly higher. People who were buying things or thinking that they could exit something at a 4% or 5% cap rate are back to the drawing board right now and trying to figure out their next play, would be my guess. Their whole basis is based on hopium. I come from a multifamily background and that’s where you see the largest syndications where it might have been a five-year hold because they were banking on, “We’re going to get a five-year loan at this rate. We’ll hold it for five years, get it stabilized, upgrade it, bump up rents and then basically look to sell it or refinance it at the end of five years right before that loan is due.” All of a sudden, a lot of the commercial markets from what I’ve seen have slowed significantly. That was the next question I was going to ask you, but also it slowed and there is no buyer or refinances. You thought you were going to be able to refinance that maybe a 4% rate now, and all of a sudden, you’re at 6.75%. Your money is not getting out of that deal and you may have to put more money into it. If you’ve got it, some people do and some people don’t. Overall, you seem a little realistic about where you think interest rates in the Fed rate are going to be in the future. You are in tune with that type of market. What are you seeing or what are you predicting? We’ve seen the worst of the three-quarter point raises behind us, but I still think that we’re going to edge up. It was all the forecasts I’m looking at and even Jamie Dimon with Chase Bank said he sees Fed funds going up to 5%. That probably puts us around 8% on the prime rate that should kick cap out of that. That’s on variable-rate loans. If you’re at 8% prime and you’re doing a development and it’s prime plus one, you’re now close to hard money rates at 9%. It’s going to slow down new construction for sure. I have several builders that I’ve talked to that are going to sit on the sideline because they based on not able to control what interest rates are doing, nor can they control what supplies are costing or when they can get the supplies. It’s easier for them to sit on the sidelines than to take the risk. Have you seen a slowdown in the commercial transaction and new origination side of things? Yes, especially with spec builders, building things on spec and not having anybody have a contract on that house. Banks have essentially cut most of those in half of what they were willing to do prior to this. A lot of builders have to build to eat, keep their crews busy and make payroll. They’re going to have to start winnowing down like some of the tech companies.
CWS 237 | Real Estate

Real Estate: A lot of builders have to build just to eat, to keep their crews busy, and make payroll. And so they’re, they’re going to have to start winnowing down just like some of the tech companies.

  Long-term, do you see the Fed’s starting to drive rates down a little bit or do you think we’re in for a little longer timeframe? I personally think it’s going to be longer than people expect. I know some people think by summertime, the Fed is going to pivot and start dropping rates again. I don’t see it, but I’m curious to get your opinion. I expect that might happen in an election year in 2024. In 2023, I don’t think they’re going to try to touch that because that would be admitting that they had overshot it, which they probably have. That would be them admitting it. With the election year and me being right outside of Washington, DC, it’s interesting how certain things play out. As we wrap up this episode, share some final thoughts. What has been one of your biggest lessons learned that you can share with people to give them some advice as they either get started or continue to grow their business? For people getting started, it’s my biggest regret, and I think anybody that does invest like this realizes the things that kept them from doing it has kept them away from multiple years of growth where they could have been doing this so much earlier. Many people’s mindsets have got to knock over those blocks that are keeping you. You got to sit down and be honest with yourself saying, “What is keeping me from doing this? Is there an answer to get me over that hump?”
CWS 237 | Real Estate

Middle Class To Millionaire, Making The Leap To The Next Level

There is an answer because everybody has the same issues that they’re dealing with, like lack of money, time and skills, but how do you overcome those? If you look at them logically and find the answer to knocking over that block, that’ll get you started way earlier than if you said, “It’s too easy to accept my own excuse that I’ve made up to keep me from doing this. I’ll keep on moving down the road and not getting any closer to your goal.” That’d be the first thing. The second thing is having the power to leverage other people’s time and money. Leveraging other people’s time is probably the greatest gift that people don’t realize they have the power to do by joining a team like we discussed earlier, but also leveraging your borrowing capacity as an individual. Many times, people will borrow easily for their own house, which is not an asset. It’s not putting money in your pocket on a monthly basis, and they stop right there. They borrow money for a house, car, or even vacations or credit cards, but they will not borrow money to buy an asset that will pay the loan through a renter renting the house which boggles my mind, but it’s true. You ask most people, “Do you have a house you rent out that pays a mortgage?” The answer is going to be, for the vast majority of people, “No, I do not,” then you ask why. You’re going back to the first one, “I’ve got this roadblock. I haven’t been able to overcome it.” Part of the challenge in my opinion is, and people can disagree, financial education and financial management in this country are something that is not taught. We should be focused on schools. I remember going to school, but we didn’t have any of these classes like Accounting and Finance. I remember when I graduated college, I’d like to think I was smart. I graduated as an engineer. I went to go get my first car loan and I’m like, “It was 6% in a $24,000 car. I’m going to pay over $30,000 over. I’m not giving them $10,000 in interest in five years.” My parents are like, “Welcome to Earth.” The first house I bought is 6% and then you realize, the first ten years is basically pretty much all interest on a property. That’s not taught or how to balance a budget. You may take a week on it, but I learned more about how to write in cursive or how to play the flutophone. They spend one year playing the recorder in elementary school, but they never teach you how to manage your money or understand what inflation is. I know they’ve gotten better at it, but it’s still very challenging. We have a colleague who I know who graduated college. I asked them about 401(k)s and they have no idea. It blows their mind. The same thing when I graduated. I graduated ‘97 from college. That’s when Roths came out. If I would’ve known Roth back then, because I lived at home for a year while I worked, I would’ve stashed much money in a Roth and paid it after tax not realizing it. There is much information out there for people. I think also part of society would rather be on social media and watching the train wrecker comedy versus trying to further educate themselves. It’s hard to get people to be focused on something that’s 40 years down the road. That’s another thing. It's hard to get people to be focused on something that's 40 years down the road. Click To Tweet If you ask anybody who’s at that point in their life, what’s one thing they wish they did better, which is either invested sooner or save sooner and plan for retirement? It goes back to what we talked about earlier, the 40/40/40 rule. I know a lot of people because my parents and all their friends who have retired over the last few years, a lot of them still working and are trying to figure it out because unfortunately, working the W-2 and only putting money into a retirement account is not going to get you where you need to go. Not unless you’re looking to live at a van down by the river like Chris Farley. David, thank you for joining us. If people wanted to reach out to you, what’s the best way for them to connect with you? Two ways. One is, I do have a book on Amazon that was released in October 2022. It’s called, Middle Class To Millionaire: Making The Leap To The Next Level. That’s available on Amazon and on Audible if you don’t like to read. That would be one thing you can do. Secondly, I’m a W-2 guy still, and I’m on LinkedIn. Hook up with me on LinkedIn. As a bonus for your readers, I’ll be glad to send them a free copy of the book. It’ll be an eBook or a PDF, but they need to hook up with me on LinkedIn. Tell me they read about me on your show and I’ll send them a free PDF copy of the book. Everybody, thank you for reading. As always, please make sure to leave us a review and subscribe to learn the latest episodes.  

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About David Vernich

CWS 237 | Real EstateDavid Vernich is a commercial lender with more than three decades of experience in the banking industry. In 2007, he partnered with other investors to purchase real estate and began his journey to generate passive income. David now owns more than one hundred homes in Tennessee and is passionate about helping others reap the benefits of passive income in their lives. Check out David’s new book “Middle Class to Millionaire: Making the Leap to the Next Level” to find out more about his path to financial freedom!

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